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SuperMac PDQ, 24 or what else... board ID / drivers

pizzigri

Well-known member
hi everyone,
ive also found this board together with the Mac II, ive also searched the forum however it may be one of , like, six different NuBus graphics adapters from Supermac. I am trying to positively ID the board and then find out if it works, shere to find drivers and also whether there is a chance to obtain - if compatible- the 3.1 firmware that the other posts discuss and talk about.
 

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Phipli

Well-known member
It's an original Spectrum PDQ. I don't think the 3.1 rom works on that.

The drivers... erm... give me a second.
 

pizzigri

Well-known member
Wow, terrific, thank you!
Would there be any advantage in finding higher fw versions? If not 3.1 a 2.x for example. Additionally, would this card be an upgrade vs the built in card of the Quadra 700?
 

Phipli

Well-known member
Mine has the same ROM version as your's, I can't remember if there were any possible upgrade paths for it. Mine was sadly DOA and I haven't got to repairing it yet.

@MacOSMonkey is knowledgeable about these cards, I'm not sure if they might know what ROM is best for them?

What machine do you plan to use it in, the Mac II?
 

Phipli

Well-known member
Additionally, would this card be an upgrade vs the built in card of the Quadra 700?
Nubus cards vs. built in video is a complex thing. The card will likely be faster at drawing graphics primitives and perhaps manipulating parts of the frame buffer, but on-board video will be fast too, and faster at some things, such as raw throwing pixels at the screen (e.g. Marathon). The thing is on-board video has a faster connection to the processor than a card in a Nubus slot, although this will be less pronounced on a 25MHz Q700, with 20MHz Nubus slots, compared to later machines.
 

pizzigri

Well-known member
well, that’s very interesting information, the card is supposedly capable of higher resolution at 24 bpp that built in, so I wanted to use it in the Quadra 700.
 

MacOSMonkey

Well-known member
RE; background on this board (and others): There were 2 ROM versions for the Xilinx-based Spec/24 PDQ board design (The X parts are the Xilinx parts). The original ROM was (maybe) 1.11? Subsequently, there was a timing change on the board design which I think was related to the Xilinx parts) paired with the 1.27 ROM release, but v1.27 should be backwards-compatible. As I have mentioned before, the "black screen" video mode change delay on these boards is caused by the time it takes to reprogram the Xilinx parts for the new video mode. This delay was optimized during development to be as short as possible.

Spec/24 PDQ was an evolutionary step in video acceleration beyond the first PAL/GAL daughtercard version (Spec/24 III and ColorCard/24) on the way to boards that used SuperMac's custom graphics acceleration chip, the Squid chip, or SQ01, as printed on the chips. The higher clock & improved performance on the Spec/24 PDQ boards was the result of Doug Gilbert hand-routing the Xilinx parts for max clock speed vs. using the Xilinx auto-routing tools. It helped keep SuperMac in the lead for graphics acceleration.

There may have been a 3.x ROM for the later, throttled SQ01 version of the PDQ+, which was a different design. I don't think there was ever another ROM upgrade for the original Spec/24 PDQ (v1.27 was the last one I remember as of 1992). Also, don't confuse the SuperVideo software version, which was originally 2.07 or 2.09 for the Spec/24 PDQ...or later 3.x vs. the early board firmware version number.

So -- in terms of SuperMac's graphic accelerator hardware design evolution:
GEN 1:
Spec/24 III (PAL/GAL daughtercard accelerator)
GEN 2: Spec/24 PDQ (Xilinx accelerator)
GEN 3: Thunder, PDQ+, etc. (Squid 01 custom silicon accelerator).

SuperMac's other custom chips also went through at least 1 iteration. SMT01 (Graphics controller) -> SMT02 (much-needed bugfix version) and BSR02 (Bit-Shift Register) -> BSR03.
 

pizzigri

Well-known member
So, sorry for the laaate reply! BUT! I found the perfect machine to run this thing in. I recovered my basically forgotten Macintosh IIfx from my mom's basement. I cleaned it, recapped the few caps that were still not Tantalums, and fired it up.
The fx works! it only has 8mb of ram, but boy, it screams with a 7.1 installation inside an old Quantum I had around. I placed the card inside, instead of the older Mac II video card I found inside, and it works. It gives me millions of colors, however I also get the effect I used to have with ooooold CRT monitors, in that the RGB is intermittent; one of the colors (red I think) appears only at flashes. If I lower the color depth (it does not list thousands, but only 256 and then millions) I get back the color. Is the card broken? Can it be repaired? I did not deep clean it in deionized water and then IPA 99% like I did the logic board of the fx.... maybe I should?
 

pizzigri

Well-known member
Add some pics!
 

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MacOSMonkey

Well-known member
Looks good - you just need a copy of SuperVideo, as above. I would stick with the latest 2.x.x version you can find.

In terms of the problem you report with red drop-out, it may just be a cable problem and your bit-depth changes are a red herring (because of slight cable movements). Leave it in 24-bit mode, make sure the cable is securely attached on both sides, and wiggle the cable - especially at connection points - to see if you see the problem appear/disappear. Also, check the video converter/adapter.

It is most likely the cable or whatever DB-15 video adapter you are using. However, it could also be the video connector on the board or the Bt parts (since you're seeing a global change with red drop-out). If the problem is not the cable, then it could be a soldering issue. The board is obviously working. It is likely not the Mac IIfx -- just a video output issue from the card. The soldering for the video connector on the board looks OK from your back-side pic of the board. So, maybe not a board connector issue.

I suppose it could also be the flat panel multi-sync. Sometimes newer multi-sync monitors have trouble with older video output signals. It seems to be syncing OK (sync on green). Just start with the cable and adapter. Do you have an old-school monitor that you can try - like maybe a 13" or 16" Apple monitor? I think the original PDQ had cable sense for certain configs, but also supported Round Robin. If you suspect the monitor, you could try a different video resolution, assuming it will sync up.

If you rule out everything else, then see if your monitor will sync up at a different resolution. That board supports multiple configs: 13" 640x480, 16" 832x624 and maybe 800x600, 19" 1024x768, 21" with a max resolution of 1152x870. It might also support the 12" LC monitor at 512x342 - I forget. But, as an SMT01 board, if the LC monitor is supported, it will be without virtual desktops (since they were unstable/non-functional in 12" mode on the SMT01).
 

pizzigri

Well-known member
Hey MacOsMonky, thank you!
I will clean well the board and maybe reflow the db connector just to be on the safe side. I do have a couple more monitors I could use, however I do not have a CRT anymore. I do have a very good vintage LG Flatron 2010B, which I used with my Macs for work. Possibly 20 years old but still going great, it has the standard 3/4 window and is a multi-sync down to 640x480 from 1600x1200. Need to haul it up to my lab to test it. Let you know - it's incredible how freaking fast the fx seems to be in use, it's crazy. It may be just an impression, but it actually feels snappier than my LC475. Wow.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
Hey MacOsMonky, thank you!
I will clean well the board and maybe reflow the db connector just to be on the safe side. I do have a couple more monitors I could use, however I do not have a CRT anymore. I do have a very good vintage LG Flatron 2010B, which I used with my Macs for work. Possibly 20 years old but still going great, it has the standard 3/4 window and is a multi-sync down to 640x480 from 1600x1200. Need to haul it up to my lab to test it. Let you know - it's incredible how freaking fast the fx seems to be in use, it's crazy. It may be just an impression, but it actually feels snappier than my LC475. Wow.
Sounds like your 475 needs overclocking :)

Only needs two resistors moving to bump the speed to 33MHz. It overclocks the video too and makes quite a difference.

Worth putting a heatsink on the CPU though. I use 40x40mm ones from ebay, they're about €2 and come in black, silver or gold (red and green too if you order from aliexpress).
 

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MacOSMonkey

Well-known member
The board connector looks OK from the back-side. There could be oxidation, but the connector pin soldering seems OK. Just check continuity/resistance with a meter if you think there might be an issue. Look for intermittent connections/fractured vias, etc. However, do not overstress the connector or bend the board.

As a starting point, check the cable - most likely source of problems.

In terms of video configurations, as you know, resolution is not the same as video timing and your multi-sync monitor may not exactly support the timing for all the configs. I will check the old PDQ for you. In terms of refresh rate, I think it did 1024x768 at 60Hz (older Sony Trinitrons) and 75Hz (Sony Trinitron aperture grille and Hitachi dot-shadow mask versions - same timing) and 1152x870 at 75Hz (original SuperMac 21" CRT -- Hitachi dot-shadow mask monitor -- no initial Sony option for this board at 21"). And, among those higher resolutions, only the 1152x870 config worked on cable sense and would bypass Round Robin/space bar setup (assuming you had a 21" SuperMac cable sense cable -- with individual RGB BNC connectors on the monitor side -- not really modern multi-sync compatible without a specific BNC-to-VGA/DB15 adapter ;-) ).

Notably, all of the 60Hz video timings (Spectrum/8 or Spectrum "C", Spectrum/24 and ColorCard) shifted to 75Hz for later boards (Spectrum/8 Series III, Spectrum/24 Series III, ColorCard/24 and Spectrum/24 PDQ, etc.) . The original Spectrum/24 PDQ (the Xilinx-based accelerator version you have) was backwards compatible for 60Hz timings, but was primarily intended for 75Hz refresh configs at 19" and 21", as above.

As for 16-bit/Thousands mode, it may have been present in the originally released v1.15 (?) ROM or early on, but maybe pulled after the fact, either because of performance or space issues. I will check. I seem to remember it being there at one point on Spectrum/24 PDQ, but then removed. Regardless, the accelerated 24-bit performance on Spectrum/24 at 1152x870 was the fastest in its class (in 1989) and was faster than stock 16-bit mode anyway. And after that, it wasn't long until Thunder/24, GWorld support and a new rev of improved custom silicon came along (SMT02 - video controller, BSR03 - bit-shift register and SQ01-squid graphics accelerator chip).

Good luck!
 

MacOSMonkey

Well-known member
I played around briefly with my original PDQ board and remembered a few more things.
You should be fine with SuperVideo 2.49 (from 1992) or maybe 2.7. The version that originally shipped with it was 2.06ish (I think), but I remember a problem with Apple 12" and 13" monitors not displaying the correct bit depths. I think that problem was fixed in later versions.

Also, 12"/13" configs don't support 2-bit mode on the original Spectrum/24 PDQ. And, from memory, I still think there are no VDTs on the 12" (LC monitor), but I couldn't test that.

There were several versions of the ROM. Your board has v1.27, which was the latest at the time that I recall. Earlier ROMs had various bugs -- I seem to remember a QuickDraw acceleration bug with Quark XPress...but I think it was fixed by v1.27. So, hopefully, that one should not be an issue for you.

In terms of cable sense, in thinking more about the PDQ,, it supported cable sense for most Apple configs -- so 12", 13", Portrait, and SuperMac's 21" mentioned above. Also, the 21" 1152x870 was actually 100Hz, not 75Hz. This info should be in the release notes - I will look for them. I probably have them somewhere (maybe a box in the garage). And, SuperVideo should show you the configs, so you can see the complete list.
 

pizzigri

Well-known member
OK, so I will start this WE by doing a through cleanup of the board, it does need it anyway. I have half gallon of 99% IPA and going to gently scrub the board placed in a vat outside with a soft toothbrush. Let it dry and then check out operation on three different vintage LCD screen, two of which have the older 3/4 aspect ratio. Maybe check solder issues as well. Change cable (got a few) and report back. For now, that's fantastic and i am grateful for your help.
Reading your post makes me think this is quite a capable video card...
Best regards!
Franco
 

MacOSMonkey

Well-known member
The Spectrum/24 PDQ is a good card and was the fastest board upon its release. Initially, I think it was the only board with 24-bit graphics acceleration on 21" at 1152x870. So, it had an initial stand-alone advantage for Mac desktop graphics/design/publishing which drove sales of the boards and large-screen monitors. Comparatively, I think Apple's 8•24 GC could only do 8-bit at 1152x870 -- a competitive selling point that stole sales from Apple.

The original PDQ had some support complaints because of the Quark XPress bug (that should be fixed in your v1.27 ROM). It was present in the v1.0 and v1.11 (?) ROMs. And, within a year or so after its release, it was replaced by Gen 3 boards with custom/revised silicon, as above, that were much faster -- new PDQ, PDQ+, Thunder, etc. But, there was eventually a rev to v1.27 for the original PDQ that fixed various issues.

The only minor down-side to the board was the black screen lag during bit depth changes. This delay occurred because the acceleration is xilinx-based and the board has to reload acceleration configurations (for example, when switching from 8-bit to 24-bit mode). I have mentioned this issue in other threads and the use of hand-routed xilinx parts was a major, high-speed achievement at the time. But, the black screen thing is a very minor issue, and is actually a non-issue relative to the improved graphics acceleration and 21" support the board provided vs. the 1st-gen Spectrum/24 Series III (that had a daughterboard -- even more real estate and required slot width). PDQ doesn't support 16-bit mode, but accelerated 24-bit was good enough.

In terms of form-factor, it was a longer (driven by multiple xilinx parts)/heavier board and the zip RAM would eventually be replaced by surface mount memory (and a smaller custom silicon form-factor). Much later, it became a double-sided 1/2 slot card -- in the post-merger Radius days, I think.

Also, I think the original Spectrum/8 and Spectrum/24 PDQ were the first boards that included SuperMac's VDI code (or Video Driver Interface), which provided configurable support for SuperVideo 3.0 and "switch-on-the-fly." SotF allowed the board to change video configurations without rebooting. It also had some bugs that were fixed or updated (configs) by the v1.27 ROM. But, those features were never really leveraged on the original Spectrum/24 PDQ, since SuperVideo 3.0 came much later. Again, I think the original PDQs shipped with SuperVideo 2.06 or 2.07, as above, and then SuperMac resolved some issues by SuperVideo version 2.49+.

The original PDQ should also work with A/UX 2.0 and higher, since A/UX fixes from Spectrum/24 Series III were rolled forward into the PDQ ROM.

I'll look for the release notes.
 
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