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Rollback to 7.0 or 7.1 from 7.5, and Ram Doublers

I recently picked up a classic II with OS7.5 installed. From what I've read compacts such as the Classic II perform better with 7.0 then they do with 7.5. I'm thinking of rolling the Mac back to 7.0, is there any reason not to do so?

The system also has Conectix Ram Doubler 2 installed. About this Mac shows 4096k of built in Ram and 12288k total. IIRC the Classic II actually has 2m of Ram built in, so I assume that the Ram Doubler is somehow tricking the system into believing it has 4 m of built in Ram. Does this mean my Classic II also has an additional 4m of ram installed? 2 megs built in + 4 megs add on *2 (RAm Doubler) = 12 megs, right? I vaguely remember having a Ram doubler in Windows 3.1, is this the same type of program?

 

Charlieman

Well-known member
If "About this Mac" reports that you Mac has 4MB, it has 4MB of physical RAM. Assume that a previous owner upgraded it. That total RAM is 12MB because Ram Doubler has been configured to use triple the physical RAM size.

 

Kallikak

Well-known member
A Classic II could be upgraded all the way to 10MB using 4MB Simms in its two RAM slots. Built-in doesn't just mean soldered in (the Classic II has 2MB on the logic board), but means total physical RAM. RAM Doubler is an excellent virtual memory program. My experience with it is that at 2x it is marvellous, but any greater factor slows it down enormously. There was a version for Windows, but I don't know that it ever caught on.

Ken

 
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Thanks for the clarification on 'built in memory'. I've ordered 2 4 meg cars to bring my total built in memory up to 10 meg. I'll see how 7.5 runs then before I make any decision about rolling back to 7.0. I'll see how Ram DOubler works on 2x, it was set to 3x when I got the machine.

 

JDW

Well-known member
I know virtually nothing about the Classic II (other than it being slower than the SE/30), so I may not be advising you properly here; but assuming your machine can run System 6.0.8, why not roll back to that instead of System 7? I mean, really. If you want to "roll back" in order to get better performance, you won't get better than System 6!

But assuming the Classic II cannot run System 6, then System 7.01 or even 7.1 would be faster than 7.5.x. I know because I've tested the speed of all these systems on my SE/30. System 6 is fastest, with 7.01 and 7.1 being second fastest (and no, there is no noticeable speed difference between 7.01 and 7.1). System 7.5.5 is slower than 7.1, and 7.6.x and 8.1 are the slowest of all these OS's.

So if you can run it, I would go with System 6.

 

TheNeil

Well-known member
I know virtually nothing about the Classic II (other than it being slower than the SE/30), so I may not be advising you properly here; but assuming your machine can run System 6.0.8, why not roll back to that instead of System 7? I mean, really. If you want to "roll back" in order to get better performance, you won't get better than System 6!
The book says 6.0.8 is the oldest version the Classic II supports. Like you say JDW, should fly even faster than OS 7 :D

 
I'll be getting some original installation floppies for system 7.0. Where can I find a procedure for reformatting the hd (currently running 7.5) and installing 7.0, or will the install disk step me through this?

 

The Macster

Well-known member
There should be a program called Apple HD SC Setup on one of the disks, either the first installation disk or a separate disk called "Disk Tools" or something similar, which will let you format the disk. PS you can download disk images for Mac OS 7.0 and 7.5.5 from here if you need them.

 

Charlieman

Well-known member
IIRC OS6 will fit on a floppy, so I assume I'd be able to boot off of the floppy to see just what 6 has to offer in terms of performance.
No, you can't compare system performance when running from a floppy with running from a hard disk. All operating systems load components when running which will affect any performance comparison.

 

Charlieman

Well-known member
I'll be getting some original installation floppies for system 7.0. Where can I find a procedure for reformatting the hd (currently running 7.5) and installing 7.0, or will the install disk step me through this?
Don't feel obliged to perform a low level format from the Disk Tools floppy. Just running the "Erase" command in the Finder (which performs a high level format) will suffice if the hard disk is in good shape.

If you want to preserve stuff on the hard disk, boot from Disk Tools. Rename the System Folder and delete the items System and Finder. Software that has been installed previously may have placed components in the Extensions, Control Panels or Preferences that you may need.

Then reboot from the "Install 1" or similar floppy, and install following the on screen instructions.

 
Thanks Charliman. I'm a recent switcher to Mac. I figured the process would be similar to DOS but wasn't sure what I might need to do to the disk before hand. Your response certainly clears it up.

 

Kallikak

Well-known member
The Classic II will not run a standard System 6.0.8. You will need the 6.0.8L variant.

However, with 10MB RAM I'd use System 7.0.1.

 

JDW

Well-known member
Only 4MB of RAM? Yet another strong reason to choose System 6.

Keep in mind that System 7 was written in a different language than System 6. System 6 is largely assembly code, whereas System 7 is a higher level language OS. What that means is, it took a heck of a lot more effort to program System 6, but that hard work paid off. System 6 requires much less RAM and is much faster than any flavor of System 7. Heck, I've booted System 6 floppies faster than some System 7 hard drives!

Honestly, I use classic Macs every day. System 7 has its place, and I use it for software that simply is incompatible with 6. But there is a lot more software compatible with 6 than you may think.

The ideal case, of course, is to have multiple System folders. I do this on my SE/30. You then use a little app called "System Picker" to select which OS you wish to boot from. It works beautifully to allow me to switch between System 6 and various flavors of 7. I would suggest you try that.

 

MultiFinder

Well-known member
I'd suggest 7.1 if you've already bought RAM for it. I have 10 megs in my Classic II and it runs 7.1 like a dream.

 

JDW

Well-known member
But unless you've run System 6 and found it to be greatly deficient for some reason, I would say that System 6 would be even "dreamier" than System 7.1 on any 68k Mac. But then, I am a lover of speed. To me, there's no such thing as "too fast" on a computer. You can always use more speed, and System 6 gives it to you. And again, System 6 will be much faster than System 7.1, even if you think System 7.1 runs "fast enough."

Keep in mind there are many modern apps that still run on System 6. Heck, I still run Canvas 3.5.6 (the best version of Canvas ever made, in my opinion) on System 6.0.8! It screams!

 

Big Bird

Well-known member
The Classic II actually requires 6.0.8L, a limited release version of System 6 to Pacific markets because a small group of computers was released before System was ready for the release in the international market. These machines, including the Classic II, shipped in other markets with System 7 installed. The Classic II will not boot from other versions of System 6. Both of these disk images create 1.4 MB installer disks and work only on this limited group of Macs.

System 6.0.8L - Disk 1 (System Startup)

System 6.0.8L - Disk 2 (System Additions)

While both System 6 and System 7 will fit on a floppy disk, you won't be able to tell anything in terms of performance. Running from a booted floppy disk is excruciatingly slow. I can tell you from experience, though, that System 6 is substantially faster than System 7. As JDW points out, there is no discernible difference in performance between 7.0 and 7.1, and I personally think there is much more difference between System 6 and System 7 than between 7.1 and 7.5. With 10 MB of RAM, you may well be happy with 7.5, so if you need some of its features, you may want to keep it instead of rolling back to System 6. A lot of people are surprised how many of the features we "expect" from the modern Mac OSes first appeared in System 7 (and therefore aren't in System 6!). It's not much trouble to drag the "System" file out of the system folder into the Preferences folder and rename the System Folder to something like "Backup" to allow the installer to perform a "Clean Install" (which was not explicitly an option in the installer until later versions of the Mac OS). This is handy for testing and comparing various versions without erasing the hard drive.

Also, if you're not the original owner of the Mac, no matter what OS you stay with, you may benefit in terms of speed and performance from a fresh install of the system software. I always recommend backing up and erasing the hard drive during a fresh install to ensure there is no residual fragmentation.

 
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