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Question Regarding USB 1.1 Cards for the 6500

BeniD82

Well-known member
Hey Guys,

General question here. I've been using a Belkin USB 1.1 (Model: FU5005) in my 6500 based CC more or less successfully over the years. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I am aware that there were two models types of that card, FU5005 for PC and FU5005-MAC for Macintosh, but I've read reports that both have been used successfully. The only difference that I could see from either board was that the Macintosh version had a slightly different layout, more caps, and a bigger oscillator (also, the PC version is a blue board rather than green). My assumption is that the card is not working right because it is the PC version, even though it uses the same OPTi FireLink chip(?)

Anyway, here it goes: I know that multiport/multibus cards such as USB/FW combo cards, and most USB 2.0 cards for the same reason, do not work in the 6500 series since it doesn't support PCI bridging, that is a given. Now, do any of you guys know/have a USB 1.1 card that you could suggest and that is known to work flawlessly on that type of system?

I was able to replace my faulty 6500/250 board which caused me so much heartache, or headache rather (yay, no more random type 11 / 13 errors on bootup, random lockups, and the network card is ALWAYS detected and working), thanks to a very friendly LEM Swapper (thanks again Mike!) but the intermittened USB issues are still persisting and my assumption is that it could be due to the fact of what type of card I've been using.

From what I have seen, most USB 1.1 cards use the same OPTi FireLink chip used in the Belkin adapter (granted, the board designs and components are quite different at times) but I am somewhat worried of having to get another USB adapter which could potentially display the same issues. Are there any alternatives to the OPTi chipset? I've heared numerous times that NEC chips appear to be more compatible than others, but most NEC based cards I could find are USB 2.0 which obviously won't work.

Any input or suggestions would be, as always, greatly appreciated! :D

~~BeniD82

 

ClassicHasClass

Well-known member
This varies greatly also with version of Mac OS.

In general, any OHCI-compliant PCI card will "just work." In my original 7300 workstation, I bought a $9 Craptastic-brand USB PCI card from CompSpewSA (when they were still in business) and stuck that in, and it worked fine in 9.1. I can't see why that would be different for the 6500 specifically.

Generally I recommend the Sonnet Tempo Trio as a great all-in-one card, but they are getting rare and expensive, and the PCI bridging issue rules it out for your purposes.

 

BeniD82

Well-known member
Hey There!

Yeah, I'm not quite sure either why I'm having so much trouble with that thing *laughs* ... Of course it could always be that the USB card was faulty when I purchased way back when since it had been previously used. I did actually own a Tempo Trio for a while and used it in my system with the associated Open Firmware patch, which allowed the card to be used (that only worked for the older models, newer cards received a chipset revision at some points which broke the OF patch). USB was detected (never tried it), but I could never get the IDE ports to recognize my drive.

Something that I noticed after selling the Tempo Trio was that the issue was most likely caused by the drive and not the card. For some reason MacOS absolutely REFUSED to detect the 20GB Toshiba drive I had attached, but when I hooked up a different one (80GB Toshiba drive), it saw it right a way. I'm kinda biting my rear over the fact that I sold the card before having tried it with a different drive }:) ... I made $90,-- off that card back then, who knows how much it would be now if I were to buy it :p

On a sidenote, when you stick in a generic USB 2.0 card (as you said, OHCI compliant), MacOS will detect it as an USB adapter (ASP will actually display it as two separate cards - PCI bridging) but the ports are not functioning, plugging in e.g. a flash drive, won't do anything, nothing loads.

I may just buy one of these cards with the bigger oscillator and different layout to give it a try especially when considering that you can get them for next to nothing these days.

 

Byrd

Well-known member
+ 1 vote here reporting that every PCI USB 1.1 OHCI-compliant card I've tried works, in any PCI-equipped Mac. Get another of these and you're set. I'd suggest yours is just a bit flaky.

What doesn't always work is OHCI PCI USB 2.0 cards, about 75% of them I've tried work, but not all. Most of these are NEC or VIA chipset-based.

To be honest I don't even know what OHCI- compliant means; all of the USB cards I've found have been in crappy desktop PCs with little numbering on the cards themselves :)

JB

 

BeniD82

Well-known member
Pulled from WikiPedia:

Open Host Controller Interface, or OHCI, is an open standard.

When applied to a FireWire card, OHCI means that the card supports a standard interface to the PC and can be used by the OHCI FireWire drivers that come with all modern operating systems. Because the card has a standard OHCI interface, the OS does not need to know in advance exactly who makes the card or how it works; it can safely assume that the card understands the set of well-defined commands that are defined in the standard protocol.

  • OHCI: Open Host Controller Interface
    The OHCI standard for USB is similar, but supports USB 1.1 (full and low speeds) only; so as a result its register interface looks completely different. Compared with UHCI, it moves more intelligence into the controller, and thus is accordingly much more efficient; this was part of the motivation for defining it. If a computer provides non-x86 USB 1.1, or x86 USB 1.1 without an Intel or VIA chipset, it probably uses OHCI (e.g. OHCI is common on add-in PCI Cards based on an NEC chipset).



  • UHCI: Universal Host Controller Interface
    Was created by Intel for USB 1.0 (full and low speeds). Far from being "universal", it is actually proprietary and is incompatible with OHCI. Intel and VIA controllers generally use UHCI, while other vendors use OHCI.



  • EHCI: Enhanced Host Controller Interface
    Enhanced Host Controller Interface (EHCI) is a high-speed controller standard that is publicly specified. The USB-IF insisted on this for USB 2.0 instead of having a different standard for PCI-based USB interfaces, which would have increased complexity and therefore costs. Intel hosted the EHCI conformance testing, which helped to prevent divergence from the standard.
     
    EHCI only provides high-speed USB functions. It relies on a "companion controller", either OHCI or UHCI, to handle full- and low-speed devices. Motherboards and PCI Cards that provide high-speed ports thus have two controllers, one handling high-speed devices and the other handling low- and full-speed devices.
     
    It is not uncommon to find UHCI, OHCI and EHCI all co-existing in a standard PC, with a UHCI driver providing low- and full-speed functions on the (Intel chipset) motherboard, an OHCI driver providing low- and full-speed functions for the USB ports on an add-in (NEC chipset) PCI expansion card, and an EHCI driver providing high-speed functions for the USB ports on that expansion card.


~~ BeniD82

 

BeniD82

Well-known member
Hey Guys,

Just wanted to provide a quick update regarding my USB issue. I was able to track down a compatible card (Lowend Mac had a listing of known working cards). Found a SIIG DualPort USB 1.1 card on eBay - new old stock, still packaged and all - for $7,-- ... USB is now working flawlessly and the old Belkin card is now in the trash where it belongs. Thanks for all the input!

-- BeniD82

 

LCGuy

LC Doctor/Hot Rodder
Just be aware that even though a card might be sold as OHCI/EHCI compliant, that will not always be the case. I bought a "OHCI/EHCI compliant" USB 2.0 card for my Wallstreet a while back, and found that out of the box, it would not work with OS 9 or OS X at all. (in fact, OS 9 "recognised" it as a SCSI card!) I put it into my Compaq laptop which recognised it as having a VIA chipset (it didn't mention ANYWHERE on the box what kind of chipset it had, nor did it come with an instruction leaflet), and then found a driver on VIA's website that allowed me to use it.

Under OS X, the card works perfectly with the VIA drivers, but to my understanding, if it doesn't work straight out of the box with the Apple drivers under either OS 9 or OS X, then technically its not OHCI/EHCI compliant. Just something you need to be aware of! (after this I won't buy a USB card for a Mac unless I know exactly what chipset it has)

 
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