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PowerBook 170 concerns

Kay

Member
I recently picked up a PowerBook 170 that was having some issues in hopes to repair it.

The operating system does not seem to boot, I see the cursor but nothing else happens. This seems as simple as reinstalling System 7. However what the seller did not mention was the mouse only registers vertical movement, not horizontal, so I am unable to move the cursor left and right. Any idea as to what the cause could be? I also heard 2 clicks from the speaker, not sure what to make of that. Corrosion? 

As this is old tech I had some other concerns I needed to look into before powering on the device again. Any leaking/failing caps I need to look out for on the motherboard or charger? 

 

joshc

Well-known member
I recently picked up a PowerBook 180, I haven't begun the restoration yet but I may be able to help.

Mine displays different symptoms to yours, but I think the solution may help both of us. With mine, it seems the power adapter is not outputting enough power for the system to operate correctly. At boot, I get a chime, bright screen and flashing floppy, but as soon as I try to use the floppy drive, the screen flickers and the computer shuts off after a second or so - this is probably because the power adapter needs recapping.

Unfortunately, the power adapter is a 'sealed' unit, though they can be cracked open with a vice - see https://www.reddit.com/r/VintageApple/comments/hbzidj/recapping_a_powerbook_ac_adapter/

and also





So, I think the first thing you should do is recap the power adapter - or find a replacement (an original replacement is likely to also need recapping though). The other alternative is a universal/knock off power adapter, just make sure the output matches and maybe double check here before buying one.

The second thing is to replace the capacitors on the computer itself - I am not very familiar with the logic boards in these (I haven't taken mine apart yet), but I am fairly sure the logic board does not use electrolytic capacitors, but I think the display does.

 

joshc

Well-known member
In terms of the trackball issue, in the mean time do you have an ADB mouse you could try plugging into the ADB port?

 

androda

Well-known member
The charger absolutely needs capacitors replaced. Last one I opened had a literal pool of cap fluid in the adapter housing. I've read that putting a flat screwdriver in where the cable exits the adapter housing, then giving it a twist will pop them open easier. But that didn't work for me, unfortunately. My third party PowerBook supply has no leaking capacitors yet.

As for the trackball, sometimes giving them a good cleaning will bring it back to life. Rotate the ring counter-clockwise and it'll come out, then clean off the rollers. Can also leave the ball out and just use the rollers, for specifically vertical or horizontal movement.

 

cheesestraws

Well-known member
vertical movement, not horizontal, so I am unable to move the cursor left and right


As @androda says, the first thing is to clean it; make sure that the horizontal roller is turning freely and that the ball is actually making contact with it.  A good simple test to do is to move the horizontal roller with your finger, and check whether the cursor moves (IIRC there's a locking ring around the ball to remove it for cleaning, so this doesn't require taking the laptop to bits).  If it does, then the problem can probably be dealt with by means of lubrication and cleaning.  If moving the roller does not move the pointer, then it's much more likely an electronics issue. 

The first electronic thing to check is that the sensors and LEDs are actually lined up.  I've seen (by proxy) at least one 170 trackball where one of the IR sensors had actually just got bent backwards, and so was not receiving any light from the LED.  I don't know if this is a common thing, but it's worth checking. 

If those line up and seem to be in consistent positions, you'll need to check whether the IR LEDs are working.  You can probably use a cheapish digital camera sensor for this; your phone camera might work assuming you have one.  You have the benefit here that at least one of the axes is clearly working, so you have something to compare the dead one to.  If both of those seem to be on, then it is likely the sensor.

I don't know about PowerBooks, but in other computers of a similar age the IR LEDs have definitely started failing; so I wouldn't be *totally* surprised if one had in any pointing device of the period.

 

joshc

Well-known member
I managed to crack mine open with a screwdriver earlier today, only caused minimal damage to the casing which I'm fine with...

Mine is the "Low Power" version which outputs 15W I believe... it only has 4 electrolytic capacitors! I think other versions have more and use those "long-life" ELNA capacitors.

The board is marked ADP-17AP and it was manufactured by DELTA. There are 4 caps on this version:
 

C1 - 47uF 400V

C4 - 22uf 50V

C302 - 1000uf 16V

C304 - 47uf 25V

All rated 105 C.

1BF1D492-0889-4506-B031-CC066AD4D625_1_105_c.jpeg

CF1BD485-576A-4B03-8062-AC4221CA11FA_1_105_c.jpeg

 

Kay

Member
The other alternative is a universal/knock off power adapter
Would a PlayStation 1 power supply work? It outputs 7.5v at 2.2A, however the PowerBook charger I have outputs 7.5v at 3.0A, not sure if the old electronics would play well with a different output. (It's also possible those PSUs could be going bad too but my ps1 hasn't acted out yet)

I would like to recap the charger at some point, but soldering is not something I am well versed in. I would rather practice on a dead board for a while before trying to repair something like a power supply. (I have 2 Xbox 360s I need to recap too!!)

Also I took the trackball out and it seems the horizontal roller is rather filthy, that may explain why I wasn't able to register horizontal movement.

 

Kay

Member
Another issue has risen, I looked into some videos about PowerBook 170 issues and a leaking battery was listed as one of them, thus I attempted to remove the battery following these instructions https://www.macrepaircentral.us/powerbook-140-145-145b-170/main-battery.html, unfortunately the brittle plastic gave away and the door came off. Can I remove the battery another way? Such as taking the laptop apart.

I also noticed the battery has cracked, this is rather concerning but I'm not sure how dangerous this is as I'm not knowledgeable in nickel-metal hydride batteries.

 

androda

Well-known member
You should be able to remove the battery after taking the laptop apart, yes.  Just push it right out of the little metal cage.  If there is any bluish / greenish / whitish corrosion or leakage from the batteries, wear rubber gloves.  Nickel metal hydride batteries are dramatically safer than lithium ion (they don't burst into flame when unhappy), but the chemicals inside are not good for skin.

Your powerbook 170 doesn't need the 3 amps, only 165c and 180c do to my knowledge.  On the underside of the laptop I think you will find something like "7.5 (solid line with dashes under it) 2.0A".  That means 7.5 volts, 2 amps.

When using an alternate power supply, three things matter.  Voltage, amperage, and polarity.  Assuming all three are the same and the connector fits, things should be fine.  In this case, that's 7.5 volts, 2 amps, and 'center positive' meaning that the outer shell is negative and the inner hole is positive (speaking of the power adapter plug).

 

sutekh

Well-known member
I'd definitely get that crusty battery out of there before attempting anything further. That could be a big part of your problem right there if its oozing cells are creating resistance. Your chassis comes apart via 4 torx screws on the bottom and a single smaller one under the modem port. Gently separate the halves from the rear first, and once you have ~1/2in of separation, slide the top half very slightly forward to free it from the front lock clips on the base. To do otherwise risks damaging what are very fragile and probably already crumbling plastics. There's an internal ribbon cable joining the interconnect and main logic board that should readily pull free.

While you're in there, in addition to removing the battery electrolyte and associated corrosion, I'd strip it all the way down to the chassis, clean everything, and rebuild the plastics. You'll almost certainly find that many of the mount points and standoffs have crumbled away. Superglue works well enough as a mild solvent on the ABS for anything that's just slightly cracking, but I prefer to use JB Weld to rebuild and reinforce the rest. I own two 180cs and a 180, and they were all in worse shape than they initially appeared prior to pulling them apart.

As for the adapter, as others have indicated, the 170 just needs 2A, but if you're seeking a new, higher-amperage alternative, give this a look:


I purchased one for my 180c when the OE 3A part was struggling to provide not only 2A continuous for the computer and screen, but also an additional ~1.5A to charge my lithium-ion battery back.

 
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cheesestraws

Well-known member
Would a PlayStation 1 power supply work? It outputs 7.5v at 2.2A, however the PowerBook charger I have outputs 7.5v at 3.0A, not sure if the old electronics would play well with a different output. (It's also possible those PSUs could be going bad too but my ps1 hasn't acted out yet)


So long as the voltage is the same and is being applied to the board in the same direction (e.g. whether the centre is positive or negative), you can use a higher-current supply.  The laptop will, in theory, only take what it needs.

 

sutekh

Well-known member
Others may feel differently, but I'm reluctant to use vinegar when cleaning / restoring electronics. It's only very mildly acidic to be sure, but if you don't thoroughly remove it from under components, vias, etc., it can cause problems. Use it on the chassis and battery contacts sparingly perhaps, but I'd keep it off the PCBs. I use CRC's contact cleaner, Isopropyl, compressed air, and a whole lotta Q-tips :)

 

Kay

Member
Alright will make sure to sparingly use the vinegar, I just got around to opening the laptop and it seems I lucked out, there's very little corrosion and it only seems present on one of the contacts, no signs of further leakage. IMG_20210125_172731.jpgIMG_20210125_172757.jpg

The rest of the board seems fine (picture below), I may not be able to take the whole thing apart right now as my family is renovating the house and I have no where to spread out the parts. [I'm working in a box on a chair :(]. Do you still recommend I take it apart for further cleaning? Or is this something I could put off until later should no further leakage be found.

  IMG_20210125_172817.jpg

Also I noticed there's a button cell battery in here I'm assuming is for keeping the time, should I remove that too? I've never personally had a button cell battery leak but I doubt this one even has a charge to keep the clock running anymore. 

IMG_20210125_172853.jpg

Last I'm still struggling to get the battery out of the metal casing that's holding onto half of the battery, what do you advise I try to get it out?

 
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Kay

Member
Update: I was able to get the battery out by pushing with a flathead screwdriver, upon inspection of the battery it seems a lot worse than I initially perceived. However I still cannot make out any leakage or staining in the battery holder other than the corrosion on the contacts. Guess I can set up a table in the basement sometime this week to work on cleaning the contacts and any other damage.IMG_20210125_191619.jpg

 
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androda

Well-known member
Yeah, that battery looks thoroughly leaked and dead. Rebuild is not likely to succeed because of all that visible corrosion.

Clean up the motherboard and things as much as you can, should be fine.

Count yourself lucky it wasn't much worse. There are some people here working on battery replacements, hopefully they succeed and release their design files for everyone to use.

 

sutekh

Well-known member
Also I noticed there's a button cell battery in here I'm assuming is for keeping the time, should I remove that too? I've never personally had a button cell battery leak but I doubt this one even has a charge to keep the clock running anymore. 


Yep, that's your PRAM battery. Likely in need of replacement. If you're handy with a soldering iron, you can grab one here:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07W4NWHJ8

Glad you got the battery free without too much drama! I had one similarly fused in one of my 180cs when I originally took ownership.

 
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Kay

Member
I got it and had good luck breaking the bond by tapping it loose from the back through one of those small slits using a small screwdriver
Exactly what I ended up doing, worked like a charm! Hopefully I can have this battery safely disposed with a few other batteries I intend to recycle this week. (MacBook battery, a few iPhone batteries, etc)

I'll probably get around to cleaning the board in a day or two, (Unfortunately I have classes) and I'm rather drained after trying to replace the battery in an iPhone today (those screws are awfully tiny!). Luckily the "blue chunks" that were attached to one of the contacts came off when I removed the battery and I was able to wipe it away. 

 
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Daniël

Well-known member
Would a PlayStation 1 power supply work? It outputs 7.5v at 2.2A, however the PowerBook charger I have outputs 7.5v at 3.0A, not sure if the old electronics would play well with a different output. (It's also possible those PSUs could be going bad too but my ps1 hasn't acted out yet)


Yes, it does, though its standard plug doesn't fit these PowerBooks. I use a PS1 adapter with a different plug spliced into the cable, and it works fine to power my PowerBook 140 without issue.

 
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