Powerbook 160 LCD woes

[Rajel]

So, the screen on my PB160 has generally kicked it. I'd already replaced the capacitors around the LCD and video quality had been as good as it gets for the 160 for some time.
I come down to find the screen black one morning.
From what I can tell, from some disassembly and recapping the inverter, is that the inverter caps leaked, and ended up shorting the DC/DC convertor module on the LCD PCB itself.
The module burned, partially to ash.

All other function of the machine seems fine, it boots up, and definitely gets to a desktop (I hear it yell at me for not shutting it down properly).

I can't find *any* solid reference to the TDK CE-0705 DC/DC module online, even in TDK's parts catalog (there's an 0703 that's similar).
Does anyone know of a suitable replacement for the CE-0705, or failing that... what other screens are suitable replacements for a PB160?
I'm extremely hesitant to buy "parts" systems on eBay at eBay prices, especially if they can't show working display because this is a literal time bomb on original caps, and it's very likely that "dead" units may have screens with the same issue or worse.

I know this is not really the best PB of the series but I sort of have some sentimental attachment to it. I'd rather not gut a working system for it if I can help it though.
Any ideas?

 

[ian1035nr]

Sorry to hear about the death of your 160's screen; it's a shame to lose a computer you have an attachment to and put work into fixing already.

According to the service manuals, the 160 & 165 use the same LCD panel, I poked around and none of the other 1xx machines use this screen.

The official Apple part number is 661-0745 and the Sharp part number is LM64P582

A lot of these old PowerBook displays were also used in industrial applications and can sometimes be sound as new, old stock.

Another user, stormy, posted this recently 





Totally different model and different scenarios

BUT the part that's important is they got a new, old stock LCD from somewhere in the UK. If you find out where he ordered it from, you can check in and see if they have a 160/165 screen in stock somewhere.

 

[ian1035nr]

Worst case scenario, there is this listing on Etsy:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/818343822/vintage-macintosh-apple-powerbook-160?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=vintage&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=powerbook&ref=sr_gallery-1-2&organic_search_click=1&cns=1

I understand your reluctance to buy a parts machine, especially when it shows no signs of life for testing. But keep this one in mind if you've exhausted your other options or you're feeling adventurous.

If it makes you feel any better, I've bought many 100-series PowerBooks that were sold for parts because they refused to turn on; and they always came to life once the battery was removed. Turns out they don't like a completely dead battery in the bay. So this unit could be perfectly fine. Whether or not the capacitors leaked and wrecked the screen are an unknown. There's always the chance that its DC/DC converter is fine and can just be swapped over. I've honestly never heard of one dying in spectacular fashion like your's has; hopefully that means it's a rare issue and any parts units don't have any damage to that bit.

It's a gamble regardless and I'm hoping you can just find a replacement screen instead of having to play a game of parts machine roulette. Nonetheless, that unit is an option.

 

[Rajel]

Ah, that's true about the battery. This one also suffered that battery issue, I did forget about that small detail.

I dd see the 190cs restore! Definitely looking at that screen upgrade for mine, and it absolutely needs the caps replaced as stormy did.
That's gonna be my next big project I think, just need to work out what caps/footprint are needed since I'm less familiar with typical SMD component sizes, most I've worked with aren't quite that large, heh.

Thanks for the reminder about the battery. This is definitely encouraging, thank you!

 

[Rajel]

although uuuuuuuugh recapping that LCD was a pain the first time, maybe I'll just swap the 0705 from a donor and see if it works first

 

[ian1035nr]

Hopefully the voltage spike just fried the DC/DC converter and nothing else. 
 

I can’t believe the prices people charge on eBay for these PowerBooks. The active-matrix models are reasonably popular so it’s more justified. But so many people bought the passive-matrix models, there’s a countless number of the things floating around, and they’re not really sought-after. 
 

And yet, bone stock or untested units get posted for prices close to if not more than $200 CAD, and they just sit there forever 

 

[Rajel]

It's absolutely absurd.
Old electronics? A FORTUNE ON EBAY

 

[ian1035nr]

And now those prices have leaked onto the local classifieds. I was looking for an old PC to make up some special floppies. Plenty of options, but they were all labeled as “vintage gaming PCs” and went for at least $100 for just the tower. 
 

There needs to be a PSA on TV that lets people know an old computer isn’t a gaming PC just because it’s running Windows 98 SE. And maybe remind folks that there’s millions of these things sitting in people’s basements, they’re not rare or valuable just for being made before the turn of the century 

 

[Papichulo]

Hopefully the voltage spike just fried the DC/DC converter and nothing else. 
 

I can’t believe the prices people charge on eBay for these PowerBooks. The active-matrix models are reasonably popular so it’s more justified. But so many people bought the passive-matrix models, there’s a countless number of the things floating around, and they’re not really sought-after. 
 

And yet, bone stock or untested units get posted for prices close to if not more than $200 CAD, and they just sit there forever 

 its greedy people who find it somewhere in there mamas basement and either sell it for 600 or they will just recycle it. They are pretty dumb and actually think its worth more then $10 becuase they see the prices they go for on ebay. The old junk pc prices are no better

 

[sutekh]

And yet, bone stock or untested units get posted for prices close to if not more than $200 CAD, and they just sit there forever 

This is the behavior that drives me bonkers. People don't check completed listings before posting to see what actual market value is. They see one example of what they're selling listed for an absurd price (that's been sitting there forever unsold) and immediately assume they too own a goldmine. 

 

[superjer2000]

Most of the inverters I’ve seen in 1xx PBs use those Oscon polymer caps so weird they would leak.

 

[Rajel]

Most of the inverters I’ve seen in 1xx PBs use those Oscon polymer caps so weird they would leak.

There are a couple of those on mine, and then a 33 and 47uF electrolytic:


They've since been replaced with MLCC equivalents.

 

[stormy]

@Rajel FYI I got my replacement screen from https://www.applemacparts.co.uk/ - but I checked that part number and they don't have your screen unfortunately

 

[superjer2000]

There are a couple of those on mine, and then a 33 and 47uF electrolytic:


They've since been replaced with MLCC equivalents.

That's crazy!!  Those are the caps I thought were Polymer (or at least the whatever uf the purple one is).  I'm like 99% sure that purple cap will say OS-CON on it which when I googled seemed to indicate those were solid polymer caps.  It's obviously leaking though so maybe not all that solid!!

I've done a few inverters (PB160s, PB145b) and hadn't ever come across leaking caps like that so I had assumed they were in fact Polymer.  That being said, I still always replace them and now I'm even more glad that I have.

 

[ian1035nr]

So I've been keeping an eye out for any LCD's you can use for your 160, because I guess now I'm invested in this PowerBook's "story" and want to see a happy ending; and I found this service document which adds to the previous information I found about display compatibility:

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/apple/service/PN_072-8124_Apple_Service_Module_Identification_Manual-Jun_1994.pdf

According to this, some models of the 145 use the same revision C LCD as the 160/165. My guess is that eventually it was cheaper for Apple to only buy 4-bit grayscale LCDs, and just use them in all their low to midrange PowerBooks, even ones that could only do 1-bit black and white graphics, instead of sourcing individual stocks of 1-bit for the 14x PowerBooks and 4-bit panels for the 16x series of PowerBooks.

I looked up the model number from the 145's revision C panel, and I found this:

https://www.elecok.com/lm64p58-sharp-9-4-lcd.html?___store=en&___from_store=bg

If this in in your budget, it might be a way to get your 160 fixed. If you compare the connector on that screen to the one on a 160/165, they seem identical in terms of size and pinout. It doesn't guaranty compatibility, but it looks promising 

 

[ian1035nr]

I just had a thought that sent me deeper into the rabbit hole: since the 145B is a later revision of the 145, it stands to reason that it would only have the revision C panel, since Apple was already transitioning from revision B to C during the run of the original 145.

So I grabbed a copy of the service manual and, sure enough, the 145B *only* uses the revision C display. And I see plenty of 145Bs on eBay that power up to show the display working.

So you can buy that one panel I linked up above, grab one of the many used 145Bs out there; or, if you want to shop around, the Sharp model number for the 145B's LCD is LM64P58