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PowerBook 1400cs/166 weirdness booting anything

Corgi

Well-known member
I have a new-to-me PB 1400cs/166 as part of a large haul (which I shall post about further some day…) and I'm having quite a time trying to boot anything on it.

The original 1.3GB ATA drive is giving up the ghost, and I've decided to replace it with a 4 GB CF card since the OEM drive sometimes will not even spin up. I haven't yet imaged the original, so I used my Pismo to initialise it with Drive Setup then ran Apple Software Restore to the CF from the 1400 restore CD. When I put the CF card in an internal CF adaptor, it doesn't recognise any System (flashing disk/? icon). When I put the CF card in a PCMCIA adaptor, it shows a Happy Mac and then immediately ejects the card. If I stuff it back in quick enough it'll go back to a flashing disk; otherwise it will Sad Mac with 0000000F/00000001 (which I am assuming is because it ejected the boot disk).

I've tried both the 7.6 and 8.0 restore media for the 1400, and both have ended this same way. I noticed on EveryMac that the 1400cs/166 came with 8.0, so it's possible it may not boot 7.6. Ideally, I'd love to dual-boot 7.6 and 8.6 on it – my original plan was a ~3ish GB partition for 8, and a 1300 MB partition for 7.6 (same size as the OEM drive).

The CF card is one of the ones that shows as a fixed disk, not removable – and the same CF card will boot a Wallstreet and a Toshiba Satellite of similar vintage.

I thought perhaps this is because I used Drive Setup on the Pismo to initialise it and maybe the drivers from 9.2 aren't good enough for it. I created a Disk Tools floppy from the image on the 8.1 CD (Disk Tools PPC) and… it does the same thing. Shows Happy Mac, then ejects the floppy and goes back to a flashing disk icon. This could of course be a failing floppy mechanism, but I can't be sure. It won't show the Happy Mac without a System Folder, so it is reading something.

I tried to put Mac OS 8.6 on the CF card. I don't have another working laptop (yet!) of this vintage, the oldest being the Pismo, so I had to drop the System Folder from the install CD in (as the installer wouldn't run). Still nothing in the internal adaptor, but the PCMCIA adaptor showed a Mac OS logo briefly before complaining that you can't copy the System Folder from the install CD anywhere else :rolleyes:

I have seen this thing boot the Mac OS with the original drive at one point (before it went flaky), so I'm fairly confident the logic board isn't to blame. I love the keyboard on the 1400 series and really want to see this machine working again.

Any tips? Am I right that the Pismo's Drive Setup may have borked the drivers on the CF card? Is it worth it to try and get the OEM drive to work one last time and image it to the CF card as a starting point? Is there a reason the Apple Software Restore wouldn't work to a CF card, or why it would be so picky about booting off of it?
 

LaPorta

Well-known member
Well, theres a few things I can think of. One, the IDE implementation of the 1400 is notoriously flaky. I can start my 1400 with CF to PC Card adapter, so I know that it does work if done properly. Do you have the CD drive? I would assume not, otherwise you would try starting the machine with it. I have disk images of the real 1400 Disk Tools floppy, if you would like to try making an image of that as well to start your machine. As for the Apple Software Restore, I don't have experience with that, as I have only ever just installed Systems from the original System media (not install media).

What I have in my 1400, which I find to work prefectly, is this IDE to SD adapter:


This way, you can always insert the SD card into a more modern Mac if need be to use the disk. I also know for 100% certain that it works with the 1400. I also know that this CF to PC Card adapter works perfectly, too:


If you would like to try with that 1400 Disk Tools image, let me know, and I can send it to you.
 

Corgi

Well-known member
No CD drive to speak of, and can't find a reliable source of one (dodgy 6X units don't seem worth it and the 12Xs are becoming unobtainium). I would much appreciate a genuine 1400 Disk Tools image. Perhaps it might work. If not, at least I have it for later once I can refurb the floppy.

My problem with SD cards is I can't find SD cards that are small enough! Part of the charm for these older units for me is being "cozy" with disk space. I don't need 64 or 128 GB on a system running 7.6/8.x, and it feels like a waste of all that empty space - I'd much rather have something like 8 GB max. Maybe I can find some old SD card from my dSLR days, but then it'd already have a lot of write cycles on it.

I have a very similar CF to PC Card adaptor and that is what "successfully" booted the copied OS 8.6 System (until it complained that I copied the System Folder off the install CD). I'm wondering if this machine needs some sort of special Enabler to run 8.0? It's just really weird that the thing shipped with either 7.6 or 8.0 and yet refuses to boot the 8.0 System that is on a CD explicitly labeled "PowerBook 1400 CD". I would assume if an Enabler was needed, it would be present there.

The only other thing I can think of is to run the 8.6 installer on something like my Beige G3 with a target of the CF card, but I seem to recall the Mac OS being weird about installing on one system and running on another. (In fact, the CD readme even explicitly calls out to not do that.)
 

Corgi

Well-known member
A picture's worth a thousand words, so this is what I can see if I copy the Mac OS 8.6 installer CD to a CF card. I assume that means that the CF card and adaptor are "Working" with the 1400's hardware. This is the only successful Mac OS splash screen I've seen on it, however…

2022-09-23 20.13.15.jpg
 

LaPorta

Well-known member
The good thing is that you can make each partition whatever you want: so if you have a 64 GB, just make one 8 GB partition and leave the rest as unused space. No downside to that. Also, the smaller carda are paradoxically more expensive just because there are fewer of them out there!

To my knowledge, only System 7.5.3 requires the 1400 enabler: the code from that should be built into 8.0.

As to 8.6, it runs my 1400 just fine (that is my usual go-to system on it). Your error message is normal: any "copied from CD" System Folder will do that.

I would try your last option and run the 8.6 installer on the G3 and then try on the 1400. There may be certain things missing (certain PowerBook specific control panels), but nothing that you would probably use routinely these days, anyway.

I will post the 1400 Disk Tools shortly.
 

LaPorta

Well-known member
You'll have to excuse me: I just moved two months ago...I can't find the box that holds all my spare 1400 disks and manuals! This is embarrassing: once I stumble upon it, I'll let you know.
 

Corgi

Well-known member
No worries! I totally understand.

I was digging and found an empty 2 GB CF card. I thought what I could do is put the 4 GB CF in the IDE adaptor, and write a CD installer to the 2 GB one and boot it in the PC Card adaptor. Unfortunately, the same result (the 1400 threw it across the desk and then Sad Mac'd) happened each time.

I have a spare 44-pin IDE to SD adaptor from my G4 adventures, so I am now in the process of trying to figure out how to put an older System on a 32 GB SD card. I don't have any working USB SD card adaptors, and the only Mac I have capable of SD card manipulation would be my Mac Studio. I don't think Monterey is much up to initialising an SD card with APM…
 

LaPorta

Well-known member
Believe it or not, Monterey will do that. I have APM as an option when I try to format a drive on my 2020 iMac.
 

Corgi

Well-known member
My goodness, you are right! The Mac Studio has made an APM SD card. I went through my Bin of Interesting Things and found a USB 2.0 SD card reader that works on the Pismo, as well, so I'm running the 1400's Apple Software Restore to the SD as we speak.
 

LaPorta

Well-known member
I hope it works. Otherwise, perhaps just try and use the legit 8.6 CD on the Pismo to install a new 8.6 on there. I think it isn't a big deal, honestly, despite being different models. Let me know how you make out either way!
 

Corgi

Well-known member
I realised that it is going to need Driver partitions that Monterey isn't capable of adding, so I repartitioned it using Tiger on the Pismo with "Mac OS Disk Drivers" ticked. I wasn't able to get the 1400's OS 8 CD to mount on the Pismo for some reason, but the 7.5.3 went fine. (It turns out this is 7.5.3, not 7.6, but it does have the 1400 Enabler in the System Folder.)

I wish I could use the OS 8.6 CD on the Pismo, but it came with 9.0.2 and even that was model-specific. I could have done it on the Beige G3 with the CF card, but there's no way for me to connect the SD card to it – it doesn't have built-in USB so I don't think the OS 8.6 CD would install to a USB disk without modification.

I did copy the "Install Mac OS 8.6" folder off the 8.6 CD and put it in some of that "copious free space", so I may be able to run the installer from 7.5.3, perhaps.
 

LaPorta

Well-known member
7.5.3 is the base system the 1400 came with, so that should work just fine. If you do manage to get some workable system going....I would recommend downloading this:


With that, you can mount any CD just as if it were in a drive (and not as a disk image to the computer). So, once the machine starts in some sort of way, make an image of the whole 8.6 CD, copy that to the drive, then once you have started in 7.5.3, then mount the 8.6 image and install it from there.
 

Corgi

Well-known member
And that's settled once and for all: 1400cs/166 does not support 7.5.3, but appears that it does support SD card booting!

IMG_9241.jpg
 

LaPorta

Well-known member
Well, we are in luck. I found my 1400 Disk Tools Disks. If this doesn't work, I am not sure what will!
 

Attachments

  • 1400 Disk Tools.img.zip
    913.4 KB · Views: 8

Corgi

Well-known member
Really odd behaviour. Once I removed the SD card from the IDE adaptor and put it back in my USB reader, it's showing "read-only". Same in the Mac Studio: "Writable: No" in Disk Utility. I'm not sure what's happened to it, but that was my last SD card. I'll have to pick up some more later.

Thanks for uploading the image! Will try the floppy disk tomorrow.
 

greystash

Well-known member
From what I have experienced in the past disks sometimes go into read-only mode when there's some corruption going on.

I've just uploaded a few of my discs which you can download below. The PB1400 can run 7.5.3 but it has to be the original version that came with the machine. I have found that Mac OS 8.5 has been the best system for usability and compatibility, but 7.5 is very fast. Mac OS 9+ is an uncomfortable experience unless you have an upgrade card installed.

- Mac OS 7.5.3 for the PowerBook 1400
- Mac OS 8.5
 

LaPorta

Well-known member
Is the disk formatted as HFS? If it is not HFS plus, it won't be writable. Just ruling that out.
 

Corgi

Well-known member
I have managed to write out a 1400-compatible 7, and 8, to a new SD card using my Pismo and a new USB card reader. The old card reader was to blame; the old card will also mount writable using the new reader, but to remove any suspicion I went with a new card as well.

Both installs will give me a Happy Mac for about 3 seconds, then turn to a flashing floppy disk icon. I believe it needs better Disk Drivers than Tiger's Disk Utility can give it, but I don't know how to do that since it refuses to boot any floppy. I'm going to try and find a few "known good" floppy diskettes and try writing out the 1400 Disk Tools image to them using the Beige G3, hoping it may be my USB floppy drive that is the issue, but I don't hold out hope.

Is there any way to "extract" the Disk Drivers from the 1400 Disk Tools floppy and somehow install them to the SD card manually? I thought about something like FWB Hard Disk ToolKit, but I can't install it because the new SD card reader doesn't work in 9, only Tiger (and it won't install in Classic).
 
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LaPorta

Well-known member
Give the Disk Tools image a try. If that doesn’t work, something else is going on here. Use the G3 to make it for sure.
 

Corgi

Well-known member
I'm pretty sure the floppy mechanism needs repair on this 1400cs. I found a listing for a 1400c with working floppy and CD mechanisms and have bought it, so they can share the drive modules.

I was able to get the original disk to spin up in my external enclosure last night, and took an image. I wrote the image to the SD card, then did some hacking with Mac-fdisk in Linux to extend the APM from 1.4 GB to the full 32 GB of the card. Lo and behold, it was the disk drivers!

Working.jpg

Now to see what I can do about putting some additional partitions in the free space and dual-booting with a newer OS. (I really don't want to touch this one, since it was so hard to get booting.)
 
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