Power Computing 60MHz Bus Capable Models

[cobalt60]

Which Power Computing models are (basically guaranteed) 60MHz bus capable? A 60MHz bus Power Computing model is one of my grail machines. There is a Power Center 120 on eBay right now. Is this model 60MHz bus capable?

According to everymac.com, the Power Center 180 has a 60MHz bus, all Power Center Pros have a 60MHz bus, and all Power Towers have a 60MHz bus. I feel like everymac is in error on the 166 and 200, since that doesn't seem to have an even multiplier. However, I certainly believe those models are all capable.

But the earlier Power Center models I am not so sure about, especially the 120. I can see the components which allowed a 60MHz bus not coming until later than the 120.

 

[Powerbase]

Im just thinking off the top of my head, but I believe all the Pro models were 60MHz capable.

Edit: Lowendmac says just the PowerCenter and PowerCenter Pro and Power Tower. Power Conputing probably used the same components as Apple. They just 'certified' them to run up to 60Mhz. Mind you, Ive always heard they arent capable of running G4s, for some reason, so rhey probably did somethign different than Apple.

Having a max bus of 60Mhz doesnt mean all the CPU selections ran it at that.

 

[cobalt60]

I've got one of those XLR8 ZIF Carriers with a bunch of dip switches for manually setting the bus. I currently have 4 motherboards I am going to push the bus in to see how far they'll go, but I sure would like to compare them to a Power Computing unit. Apparently, there is a reasonably high chance at least one of my boards will run at 60MHz, so that's pretty cool. But now I'm just wondering if the Power Computing can go even faster/

 

[jessenator]

Power Computing Clones

CLONE	CPU	MHz	Bus max	L2	CPU Upgrade	max RAM	PCI	Case
Power	601	80, 100, 110, 120	40.0	256k	?	200MB, 8	NuBus	DT
PowerBase	603e	180, 200, 240	40.0	256k	603e/G3	192MB, 3	3	DT/MT
PowerCenter	604	120, 132, 150, 166, 180	60.0	512k	ASPD	512MB, 4	3	DT
PowerCenter ???	603e	240, 270, 300	Prototypen. Erste Clones, die mit einem 603e Chip mit bis zu 300 MHz vorgestellt worden sind; wurden aber nie angeboten.
PowerCenter Pro	604e	180, 210, 240	60.0	1024k	ASPD	512MB, 4	3	MT
PowerCurve	601	120	40.0	optional	ASPD	512MB, 4	3	DT
PowerTower	604	166, 180	60.0	512k	ASPD	512MB, 4	3	MT
PowerTower "e"	604e	180, 200	60.0	1024k	ASPD	512MB, 4	3	MT
PowerTower Pro	604e	180, 200, 225, 250	50.0	1024k	ASPD	1024MB, 8	6	TW
PowerTower Pro MP	2x604e	225, 250	50.0	1024k	ASPD	1024MB, 8	6	TW
PowerTower Pro G3	750	250, 275	50.0	1024k Backside 1:1	ASPD	1024MB, 8	6	TW; nie erhältlich (Verbot von Apple).
PowerWave	604	120, 132, 150	50.0	120: optional, 132: 256k, 150: 512k	ASPD	512MB, 8	3	DT/MT

 

[cobalt60]

PowerCenter

604

120, 132, 150, 166, 180

60.0

I think this table is imprecise (I could be wrong). I have found a link which suggests that within the PowerCenter series, there are 2 different mainboards used; "Catalyst", and "Catalyst Plus". Here is the link:

Power Computing RAM Specifications

Secure online sales of high-quality Macintosh memory products, hard drives, systems, RAID, monitors and other peripherals

www.macgurus.com

PowerCenter 120 Catalyst1 PPC 604​		FPM DIMM​		70ns​		4​		256MB​		50MHz5​
PowerCenter 132 Catalyst1 PPC 604​		FPM DIMM​		70ns​		4​		256MB​		50MHz5​
PowerCenter 150 Catalyst1 PPC 604​		FPM DIMM​		70ns​		4​		256MB​		50MHz5​
PowerCenter 166 Catalyst Plus3 PPC 604​		FPM DIMM​		60ns​		4​		256MB​		60MHz5​
PowerCenter 180 Catalyst Plus3 PPC 604​		FPM DIMM​		60ns​		4​		256MB​		60MHz5​
PowerCenter Pro (210/240) Catalyst Plus3 PPC 604e​		FPM DIMM​		60ns​		4​		512MB​		60MHz​
PowerTower 166/180 Catalyst Plus3 PPC 604​		FPM DIMM​		60ns​		4​		256MB​		60MHz5​
PowerTower 180e Catalyst Plus3 PPC 604e​		FPM DIMM​		60ns​		4​		256MB​		60MHz7​
PowerTower 200e Catalyst Plus3 PPC 604e​		FPM DIMM​		60ns​		4​		256MB​		60MHz7​

1Note: Catalyst motherboards are certified at a maximum of 50MHz, although testing by PCC has demonstrated reliability up to 60MHz.

3Note: Power Computing has modified and enhanced PowerTower and PowerCenter 166/180 MLBs (the so-called Catalyst Plus) to run at a maximum of 60MHz. Enhancements include ASICs and L2 cache certified reliable beyond 55.33MHz.

So it seems to me, the earliest mainboard to be built with 60MHz bus in mind is the PowerCenter 166.

Not to say the PowerCenter 120/132/150 won't run at 60MHz. Just that the chances of success would probably be higher with a "Catalyst Plus" board. And now I am wondering if beyond 60MHz is doable...

 

[Nathan_A]

All the Catalyst based machines will do 60 MHz bus.

 

[jessenator]

Hm. I was skeptical at first, but I've come out of hibernation to dig about the issue.

Here's an internal PowerComputing doc:

https://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/computing/PowerComputing_manuals/PowerSpecificationSheet.pdf

So the MacGurus chart seems more accurate compared with this PCC confidential/internal spec sheet. MacGurus seems to have gotten everything they have from an old database/repo called PowerSource, started after the Apple acquisition. It's a shame that PowerSource didn't get fully archived (or is at best difficult to navigate on Wayback Machine due to all of the gated content PS hosted). The above linked internal document seems to clear some things up.

I was not prepared to take MacGurus at their word, because they link externally to something of a forum/repo (PowerSource), which was giving me some serious LEM vibes when I started looking, but now I've seen an abridged equivalent of the Apple Developer Note series for PCC, I'm more readily inclined to believe the chart cobalt60 cited. Shame, as I quite liked macinfo.de resource. Maybe it's just a few things here and there. Maybe you could brute force boot an OG PowerCurve to run a 210 card, but sadly I don't have one. Don't think I'd tempt fate anyway.

It looks then like the OG PowerCurve and the first wave (ha) of PowerCenter models were indeed capped at 50MHz. The remaining Catalyst-based machines could operate at 60MHz.

Other interesting tidbits in that doc as well.

side note:
I think it's wildly hilarious that my PowerTower/166—and every other save a PowerCenter Pro board I found on ebay—still had "PowerCurve" silkscreened onto them. Makes sense, given PCC's penchant for saving money wherever they could. Buying in bulk, etc.