Performa 575 Double Boot?

[LCARS]

Six months ago I pulled my 575 out of storage, updated it, and all was good. It has been plugged in but off for two months until I started it up tonight (on a voltage regulator).

Here's the sequence: power button -> chime -> scsi spin up/access -> screen power on -> then it would pause, boot chime again, and boot normally.

It's functional save for two strange examples: on one boot, the PSU fan didn't start and while naming a folder, the keyboard and mouse stopped responding until the 'i' character started continuously appearing in the folder naming field, even after I unplugged the keyboard. 

I reseated the board. Still have a double chime but so far, no more usability issues. I'm not sure how to interpret this double start situation: PSU cap?

 

[MrFahrenheit]

Firstly, I’ve had the double boot before when moving a hard drive from one type of machine to another. Like booting on a PPC then booting on a 68k. Don’t know why. 
 

Secondly, yes you definitely need to recap that Mac. All Macs pre-2000 need to be recapped ASAP. 

 

[LCARS]

Thanks, MrFahrenheit. Interesting- I reformatted the drive but possibly there's still something causing it behave that way.

I can give an update on the weird character issue: it's the keyboard. It's a IIgs keyboard and it behaved the same way on other machines. I found the left ADB port to be loose so I'm assuming its the intermittent contact that's causing that issue.

The board was recapped about five years ago. Are the PSU caps known to go bad as well?

 

[MrFahrenheit]

Thanks, MrFahrenheit. Interesting- I reformatted the drive but possibly there's still something causing it behave that way.

I can give an update on the weird character issue: it's the keyboard. It's a IIgs keyboard and it behaved the same way on other machines. I found the left ADB port to be loose so I'm assuming its the intermittent contact that's causing that issue.

The board was recapped about five years ago. Are the PSU caps known to go bad as well?

Ah ok. The reformat, was it done on your 575 or on a different machine ?

Did you recap just the logic board?  Because a 575 needs the analog board and PSU recapped as well. What caps did you use ?

As for the keyboard, very strange. Perhaps you could take it apart and check for damage somewhere. 

 

[LCARS]

I reformatted on the 575. According to Disk First Aid, it's damaged. MacCaps did the work. I think we used ceramic replacements. I recall asking for the most reliable replacements.

The PSU has not been touched. That sounds like the next task after I reformat the drive again.

The keyboard came from eBay. It was covered in kids scribble. I tore it down and cleaned it up but I didn't notice how loose that ADB port is. With the case off, it acts normally when I hold down the port but as soon as I let go, it gets all weird. I imagine it needs to be pulled off, cleaned, and re-soldered.

 

[LCARS]

I found the Performa 500 series restore disk image at Macintosh Garden and burnt a copy...but I can't seem to boot from it. The guide on the CD states Apple Option Shift Delete to start from the CD, but all I get is a question mark foppy, until I let go, then it boots from the HD.

So since the CD opens normally running from the HD, it makes me think that the burnt copy is functional. Could it be that either the burn format isn't compatible with booting? or more likely that the image from M.G. is unbootable?

 

[LCARS]

I pulled out the 2GB Segate Hawk drive, put it into an external enclosure, and connected it to my Wallstreet.....where 9.2.1 sees it as a 13.96GB drive. Drive Setup won't let me initialize it and initializing it in the Performa results in a "disk failed to initialize" message. So strange!

The Seagate sounded awful when the PowerBook ran a block check. Sigh- have I lost another SCSI drive? I have a SCSI2SD waiting but I'd miss that mechanical sound.

Update: I erased the drive with Disk First Aid on the Wallstreet. Back in the Performa, Apple HD SC Setup reports: "The drive failed it's test. Problems verifying data on disk." It sounds mechanically normal but does this report indicate that it's failing?

 

[MrFahrenheit]

I found the Performa 500 series restore disk image at Macintosh Garden and burnt a copy...but I can't seem to boot from it. The guide on the CD states Apple Option Shift Delete to start from the CD, but all I get is a question mark foppy, until I let go, then it boots from the HD.

So since the CD opens normally running from the HD, it makes me think that the burnt copy is functional. Could it be that either the burn format isn't compatible with booting? or more likely that the image from M.G. is unbootable?

It's possible it wasn't created properly, or burned properly.  CDs were sometimes tricky even back in 1996, let alone burning one using 2020 technology.  Modern blank CDs are not formulated exactly the same as those from the 90s.  There are probably 10 possibilities here why it doesn't boot.

I pulled out the 2GB Segate Hawk drive, put it into an external enclosure, and connected it to my Wallstreet.....where 9.2.1 sees it as a 13.96GB drive. Drive Setup won't let me initialize it and initializing it in the Performa results in a "disk failed to initialize" message. So strange!

The Seagate sounded awful when the PowerBook ran a block check. Sigh- have I lost another SCSI drive? I have a SCSI2SD waiting but I'd miss that mechanical sound.

Update: I erased the drive with Disk First Aid on the Wallstreet. Back in the Performa, Apple HD SC Setup reports: "The drive failed it's test. Problems verifying data on disk." It sounds mechanically normal but does this report indicate that it's failing?

Sadly it's likely failing.  If you want the mechanical drive sound, look into a U160/U320 drive that is backwards compatible with LVD (SCSI 1/2) and has a SCA 68 or 80 connector.  They're usually under $20 on eBay.  Pickup an adapter board for about $25 and you're golden.  I have bought many replacement drives using this method.  My average cost per drive including the adapter board is under $60.  

This is the adapter board I have found to work:  https://www.datastoragecables.com/scsi/internaladapters/sca80/SM-028.html

 

[cheesestraws]

So since the CD opens normally running from the HD, it makes me think that the burnt copy is functional. Could it be that either the burn format isn't compatible with booting? or more likely that the image from M.G. is unbootable?

Quite a few of the MacOS installers on MG aren't actually bootable, because people only image the HFS partition and not the whole disc.  This appears to be a widespread error and unfortunately there's not much one can do about it.  The situation is made worse because people check whether the image will boot BII/SheepShaver, but those have more lax requirements on what to boot from than actual hardware does, so things that will boot an emulator will not necessarily boot actual hardware.  It's all rather annoying, really.

 

[LCARS]

MrFahrenheit: That's great to know about the adapter. It seems like a saving grace for those wanting a real SCSI drive in their Mac, instead of buying a 50-pin. Thankfully my original 7.6.1 CD is still good. I recall seeing a "drive clicker" for the BigMessOWires FloppyEMU. That sound is certainly nostalgic.

cheesestraws: I didn't realize that was widespread. Annoying but predictable I suppose. My Performa would not boot from it but it would read it. 7.6.1 sounds just fine for now, rather than continue to burn disks.

 

[Daniël]

Does it have a functional PRAM battery? I have a few Macs like my Quadra 800 that will exhibit the double chime behavior as you described when no PRAM battery is installed.

 

[Franklinstein]

The 575 supports both 24 and 32-bit addressing and the system defaults to 24 bit if, say, the PRAM battery is dead/missing. Versions of Mac OS after System 7.5 do not like 24-bit addressing. So, if you're cold-booting a 575 with System 7.6 it will start up, switch to 32-bit addressing, and reboot again before it loads the desktop.

 

[LCARS]

@Daniël OosterhuisNo, it doesn't have a PRAM battery installed. The board calls for the odd Velcro-in-place (like this one: https://www.newertech.com/products/pram_4_5v.php )

and I recall that those in particular used to leak. Oddly, the double boot is uncommon with mine but somewhat became common when I started moving things around. I have noticed that the HD caddy doesn't hold the drive in pace (too long) so the drive is relying on the friction from the connector.

@FranklinsteinI did not know that- thank you. It is indeed booting 7.6(.1) Well, maybe I'll find a PRAM battery and keep an eye on it. I'm relieved at how much easier it is to work on desktop than PowerBooks.

 

[superjer2000]

Does it have a functional PRAM battery? I have a few Macs like my Quadra 800 that will exhibit the double chime behavior as you described when no PRAM battery is installed.

This is it. My LC575 does the same thing with no (or a dead) pram battery

 

[LCARS]

Well, that seals it. Off to find a new PRAM battery. If I can get this machine fully sorted then I'll be happier with the state of the collection. Thank you!