New to Newton - Card Problems

[BadGoldEagle]

Hey there

My first post here in the Newton section.

Just bought myself an OMP for €50. I consider this cheap since I got the original box as well as all the documentation, the VHS tape, two pens, original power supply, warranty etc...

It works well, although the audio seems to be a bit low. You can barely hear it. It doesn't matter now, audio isn't important in a Newton, right?

I got the "getting started" card along with it, but it won't work. It tells me that this type of card can't be recognised. 

The guy I bought it from said it was never used as it was part of an experiment at work: they wanted to know if it was worth it to deploy Newtons in his service. Apparently it didn't work... Handwriting recognition was pretty appalling he told me.

He left the card in the slot for 20+ years. I don't know what damage could have occurred to the card during that time.

Is it possible to fix it? 

Newton asks me to erase the card in the slot, but aren't those "getting started" cards ROMs?

Is it possible to "flash" a Newton Card from an image available on the internets?

I apologise if I'm asking the wrong questions, but I'm a Newton novice.

Here's a picture of it:

 

[bibilit]

Hi Lambert,

Not sure a 100% but those cards have a small battery and probably do need a good battery to work.

Don't remember the type, but are a button type one.

 

[BadGoldEagle]

hey Luis

Do you mean a battery inside the card? 

The Newton came with a dead backup battery. I'll get a new one but not sure it's that problematic. 

Yes, it won't keep date and time and it's initialising the Newton at every single boot since it can't save anything...

 

[BadGoldEagle]

Found some more info about the cards.

They have indeed a built in battery. It's theoretically easy to replace it as we can see here.

But the Newton card I have doesn't have that door...

Edit 1: I noticed some cards looked like this one internally. With that type of card, you need to take it apart completely by separating the two halves. But doing so to the newton card will kill it. 

IMO there's no way to replace the battery on that card.

Edit 2: Maybe there're rechargeable? If they are, I should leave the Newton on with the Power supply connected (and no batteries)

But if it's really flat, I guess the content is gone.

 

[bibilit]

Don't think a rechargeable battery was available.

Anyway, never felt comfortable with those cards.

 

[ScutBoy]

I don't remember exactly, but I don't think you are missing much by not being able to access that card - the lessons were pretty basic.

That said, I understand wanting to have it work - because that's what we do here!  I had no idea that these cards had/needed battery backup.

 

[td4dotnet]

I know that the Atari Portfolio data 'cards' require a battery to continue to store data iirc it's a button cell CR2032... 

 

[BadGoldEagle]

I'm gonna try recharging the newton with the card in.

I guess I should remove the main batteries as these are definitely not rechargeable: Maybe the Newton tries to recharge them when PSU is connected?

 

[rsolberg]

If you're referring to the AA battery tray, it has different terminals than on the rechargeable pack to prevent charging batteries installed in it. Doh! I'm still half asleep. I know this is true for the MP 2000 and 2100, but I'm not completely certain about the OMP.

 

[Elfen]

The problem could be made worst in that the button battery is bad, like a bad cap, and will not take a charge at all. Many will in their first couple of years of service but we're talking about batteries that are not pushing 20+ years in age. They need to be replaced and that means one needing to open the case to get into it.

They are built similarly to PCMCIA SRAM cards, so look for a battery latch first. It you find one, the next trick is to open it and remove the battery and replace it.

 

[BadGoldEagle]

They are built similarly to PCMCIA SRAM cards, so look for a battery latch first. It you find one, the next trick is to open it and remove the battery and replace it.

There's no latch on the Newton Card.

I'll try recharging it today.

 

[bibilit]

Neved had this card, but the back with the Apple logo is not removable ? looks like a complete blanking plate maybe clipped into the plastic casing. 

 

[BadGoldEagle]

I'm afraid there's nothing to be done here. 

You can't remove the back without seriously damaging the card. I left the Newton charging overnight and the card is still unreadable.

IF PCMCIA cards can be imaged, then I'll get another 'getting started' card and a PCMCIA card reader. 

But is it feasible? 

 

[bobo68]

The getting started cards that came with the OMP were ROM cards: http://www.forcedperfect.net/gear/software/newtongettingstartedcard/ They have no battery.

 

[BadGoldEagle]

The getting started cards that came with the OMP were ROM cards: http://www.forcedperfect.net/gear/software/newtongettingstartedcard/ They have no battery.

Thanks bobo68 ! I had read this article before but somehow skipped the read-only part.

So what's the problem here?? Maybe the Newton's slot? It does say the card can't be read after all...

Unfortunately I have no other cards to test it.

I still haven't replaced the backup battery. Maybe it needs a good one to work properly?

 

[beachycove]

The problem with the card might be power related, ie, bad caps or inadequate power supply. The sound trouble is likely symptomatic. Having said that, in my experience Newton card slots are a bit fussy.

Presumably your last post's mention of a battery was about the backup battery in the Newton itself. Yes, it should be replaced. I seem to recall that some models (eg, the 110) will not even boot without one.

Great find, given the boxes and all.

This is probably the best Newton site left (other than unna): http://messagepad.free.fr/index.html, but a reading knowledge of French is required for most of it. Be sure to check out the boring meeting QuickTime ad. Ah, the days before cellphones and ubiquitous wireless!

 

[Elfen]

IF PCMCIA cards can be imaged, then I'll get another 'getting started' card and a PCMCIA card reader. 
But is it feasible? 

If it is PCMCIA, then yes, on a system (Laptop) that has PCMCIA. And if the card works.

Another issue is the file format the card might be in and its compatibility to an outside system. Newton to Mac OS (7/8) might work but that is an educated guess on my part.

 

[BadGoldEagle]

The problem with the card might be power related, ie, bad caps or inadequate power supply. The sound trouble is likely symptomatic. Having said that, in my experience Newton card slots are a bit fussy.

I'm using the original power supply so it shouldn't be a problem. I didn't know Newtons had capacitor related problems too. Are these fixable?

Today I wanted to show off my Newton and it doesn't work anymore... Even with known good batteries. I guess the backup battery is really dead this time. If I get time this week I'll replace the battery and report back here. I hope it's not serious. 

 

[beachycove]

You may need to press the reset button after that backup battery is replaced.

On the caps question, I would have thought there would need to be some in the ps. As for the logic board, maybe -- there's certainly one on the mp2000/2100.

Some good resources:

General FAQ: http://www.splorp.com/newton/faq/default.html .

You also maybe need to go to Newtontalk rather than the 68kmla if you want real Newton expertise: http://newtontalk.net. There is not a huge concentration of Newton knowledge on here, in my experience, so best to go to the specialists!