Mustang Prototype-5300ce with big 1400 LCD - 3D printable yet?

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

It's all about size, have hobby level printers capable of 8.5" x 11.5" PowerBook LCD bezels hit the market yet. Printing on an angle within a 10" cube would also work. Does anybody have one or does anyone know a rough price for a bezel less than half an inch thick might cost from a print house?

The Mustang: Unreleased PowerBook for the 1996, the one(?) year of no new PowerBook releases.



Hence my fascination with it from more than shear coolness aspect of an almost edge to edge panel long before they became possible. It got all the way to textured tooling phase before Apple gave up on filling the PB gap.

Only one piece needs be modeled and printed in a much easier to color match filament, if not black and a dye job for the rest. [}]

Because it was never released, almost nobody has a mental comparison for the size of the LCD opening. I've got a Video Out card or two laying around and one could easily have its connector desoldered and routed to a close approximation sized Pi Panel's controller inside the floppy bay. I've got the PCMCIA card storage Weight Saving Module to model for the internal project box as well. Solvent smoothing of print lines would work well enough as would sanding the bezel and the rest of the case down to Prototype Smoothness and black dye job or,Bog forbid a Japanese golf togs color scheme.

@olePigeon got the printer for this hack in house yet?

edit: forgot to mention the BGA rework. []

 

[360alaska]

3d printers that are that size aren't terribly expensive nowadays. Perhaps you should get one, look for a CR-10 or a Ft-5.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Yep, pretty amazing, but I'm on fixed income, low toy budget until I retire in 5.5 years and get my next raise. So I'm better off not going through the learning curve, much less cost for printer-n-filament printing anytime soon. What's a good enough, free 3D modeling package suited to the purpose? I can start out with the 150 LCD bezel or for the even more simple OrangePi (I've yet to touch) PC Laptop project box lid and move on up the Mustang by steps.

Once I've got a bezel dialed in I'm sure somebody would pitch in to add supports and the like ready it for printing.

Then again, by the time I've gotten a to that point  .  .  .  :

First things first. :-/

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Saw something interesting from Ponoko: https://ckeys.org/

Tore the ailin' 5300c apart in downtime at work tonight, it's not quite as daunting a first project as I'd thought. Decided not to trust my reading of the Macs by year tables on everymac so much any longer, found the lowly 1400cs and c/117 lurking at the bottom. Still a pretty pathetic cacheless showing for 1996, but my bad. May not have been a full calendar year per se, but between it was 15 MONTHS! : Woulda been nice to see the Mustang pop up in early to mid '96.

Googled myself again looking for info on the video card:





Went ahead an pulled junk out of the way of the 5300 drawer, pulled the manual out and hit the first serious roadblock already. Looks like I need to find an LCD controller that can handle a right sized LCD supporting 800x600@72Hz or 1024x768@75Hz for this to work. 800x600 would be at 16-bit, 1024x768 would only be at 8-bit, but pixel heaven for a 1995 era 'Book, or anything prior to the PDQ really.

@alk I found your 5300 o.c. page, have you still got the Mustang? http://www.alksoft.com/5300_overclock.html

 

[Franklinstein]

Went ahead an pulled junk out of the way of the 5300 drawer, pulled the manual out and hit the first serious roadblock already. Looks like I need to find an LCD controller that can handle a right sized LCD supporting 800x600@72Hz or 1024x768@75Hz for this to work. 800x600 would be at 16-bit, 1024x768 would only be at 8-bit, but pixel heaven for a 1995 era 'Book, or anything prior to the PDQ really.

The ce already does 800x600 on its internal display using standard LVDS. If you want anything higher than that (or with more colors) your only option is to attempt to upgrade the built-in VRAM; there's really no way to upgrade the video controller (I'm 90% sure it's a Chips 65k series on an 040 bus). If your plan was to rewire the video out card, it has the same concerns: small VRAM, slow controller, 040 bus, only now it doesn't do LVDS output natively and thus you'd need the controller you mentioned. Maybe someone made a higher res video out card? I have some sort of combo video/Ethernet card for one of mine that I quite like; I think Focus made it.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Roadblock 2: I can't find a QXGA panel between 9.7" iPad and 21.3" desktop. :mellow:

 

[Franklinstein]

Right, so I clicked on the Super5300ce link and apparently you have the same card as I do. 

Did you ever get the processor swapped over? That thread seems to have died.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

It's all about the big 1400 screen shoehorned into the Mustang cool factor. It was still 800x600 as in the 1400 right up through the "Wallstreet until the PDQ.

Point is to get the bigger screen at 8-bit up to the PDQ's 1024x768. So far I'm stuck at 12.1" for XGA/1024x768. Too big!

Samsung-12-1in-XGA-1024x768-LCD-Screen

HDMI-VGA-2AV-Control-Board-12-1inch-1024x768-LCD-Panel

I have three of the Focus LapisColor cards for the 5300 and willing to sacrifice one to the effort.

If I hack one of the 1400s from the stack I don't even need a new bezel. Just cut a 12.1" gaping maw for the panel and use my one and only NewerTECH VIEWpowr 1400/16, but that's not something I want to try. I wonder what resolutions and refresh rates the Apple 8-bit 1400 cards do? Don't remember offhand, I've got one or two of those. The 1400 CD bay has a bit more room than the 5300 bay and it would be nice to have a 12.1" 1024x768 1400c, but I've had my sights set on the Mustang since the Snitz days.

Dunno, might be backburner time again unless I search 800x600 panels. 11.6" is what I need, but what I've seen so far are wide aspect panels.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Right, so I clicked on the Super5300ce link and apparently you have the same card as I do. 

Did Apple make a Video Card for the 190 or 5300? ISTR  having a couple of cards for a "standard" PB video cable in that form factor somewhere around here.

Did you ever get the processor swapped over?

Nap, wrong kind, that was a booboo. I've got the 2300c type QFP proc in 180MHz. 5300ce's BGA, right? I've been looking at the BGA proc swap thread for candidates. I think the 100MHz 5300 comes in QFP, but Mustang was quicker than that and BGA IIRC. But I'm tired and probably not thinking straight ATM.

That thread seems to have died.

They pretty much all do.

 

[Franklinstein]

Did Apple make a Video Card for the 190 or 5300? ISTR  having a couple of cards for a "standard" PB video cable in that form factor somewhere around here.

Yeah most of the high-end configurations had that video mirroring/2nd display card with dedicated 512k VRAM on it. I find that it's mostly useless unless troubleshooting or running a headless PowerBook for some reason.

Nap, wrong kind, that was a booboo. I've got the 2300c type QFP proc in 180MHz. 5300ce's BGA, right? I've been looking at the BGA proc swap thread for candidates. I think the 100MHz 5300 comes in QFP, but Mustang was quicker than that and BGA IIRC. But I'm tired and probably not thinking straight ATM.

None of the ce models that I've seen have used BGAs; they've all had QFPs. The 603e was available in QFP form up to 200MHz or thereabouts, so it's not like they would have had to move to a new form just for that 17MHz bump. Also, to use a BGA in place of a QFP in the 5300 would have required extensive board redesign which wouldn't really have been worth the effort. You may want to check yours, though; I'd be happy to be surprised if it is BGA but it would be better for your project if it was a QFP.

The Mustang was of course a different animal with a new board, so it's understandable that they would want to use a BGA from the start to save on real estate. defor has a Flickr album with a picture of the Mustang's processor and it appears to be just a 100MHz part, which I'm not sure why they would bother with if they were going for a new model. I mean, why bother to replace an existing 100MHz model with a nearly identical one? Maybe it was just for testing? 

Another thing to note: most of the 5300c and cs models appear to have 512k of main VRAM implemented in a single chip but there are pads ready for another VRAM chip, which would take you to 1MB. I don't have a ce model with me so I can't tell you if it always has 1MB of VRAM or not, but if it doesn't it should be easy to add another chip.

 

[Franklinstein]

Also, the system bus speed appears to be set by a dedicated 33MHz crystal. I'm curious if you could replace it with a 40MHz part for a nice bump. Keeping the processor at its 3.5x multiplier will also yield a 140MHz processor which would be worth a processor swap even if you couldn't figure out how to increase it further. I'd consider trying this myself but again I don't have a ce on hand, just a couple janky cs units (they'd only get to 120MHz at original 3x multiplier). I don't have any replacement processors either  :lol:

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Interesting, I was stuck thinking that the 030 I/O bus of the Duo 2300c was 25MHz x 4x Multiplier = 100MHz recently. Not the case at all.

I/O bus is actually 22MHz and the System bus is 33 MHz, so its multiplier must be set at 3x and my 180MHz QFP 603e can go to a to 4x multiplier's 132MHz without breaking a sweat,

Table for clock chipping 5300 and 2300 bumped to a 4x multiplier:

33MHz x 4x multiplier =132MHz

34MHz x 4x multiplier =136MHz

35MHz x 4x multiplier =140MHz

36MHz x 4x multiplier =132MHz

37MHz x 4x multiplier =148MHz

38MHz x 4x multiplier =152MHz

39MHz x 4x multiplier =156MHz

40MHz x 4x multiplier =160MHz

Chipping the clock could lead to up to160MHz if asynchronous PBX bridge can handle the differential. Half of it runs at 33MHz based on the Bus clock, the other on the 22MHz 030 I/O bus clock.Does the 030 I/O bus run off the a tweaked 33MHz system clock or does that bus have its own 22MHz oscillator? HRMMM?

Only RAM, ROM and PBX would be stressed by the  oscillator bump if the 030 I/O bus has its own clock.

 

[Franklinstein]

Chipping the clock could lead to up to160MHz if asynchronous PBX bridge can handle the differential. Half of it runs at 33MHz based on the Bus clock, the other on the 22MHz 030 I/O bus clock.Does the 030 I/O bus run off the a tweaked 33MHz system clock or does that bus have its own 22MHz oscillator? HRMMM?

Only RAM, ROM and PBX would be stressed by the  oscillator bump if the 030 I/O bus has its own clock.

The PB 5300 is basically the portable equivalent of a 53/63xx, using recycled parts from the PB 500 series in the same manner the 53xx reuses Quadra 630 parts.

On the 53/63xx series, the 030 bus runs at 16MHz on a branch of the 040 bus, which in turn runs at processor bus speed (37.5 or 40MHz). The PB 5300 and 2300 do pretty much the same, though I don't remember the exact specs off hand. 

I also don't remember exactly how the PB 5300 gets its bus clock; the various crystals spread around the board suggests that it derives bus frequency directly from that 33MHz crystal, unlike other machines like the desktop 53/63xx that use a single crystal and a clock generator chip to send the correct clocks to various devices. I would consider experimenting myself but until I can either replace the processor at the same time or figure out how to change the ratios, it's unlikely a 100MHz processor would boot or be stable when clocked to 120MHz.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Shelved this one for a bit and pulled out the container holding the bits from my first pass at Mustang FauxProtoBook development while I look for LCDs as a side project.