Macintosh IIci

[NickNick]

Hey there! Have an odd question and am wondering if it is at all possible. I have a dead Macintosh IIci that has been recapped but still does not want to boot. Gives half of a chime and turns off. It keeps doing this. Anyways I was wondering if it would be a possibility to remove the FPU from the MoBo and use it for one of my LC iii's as they all have the socket for that chip. I have a hot air station gun that removes chips. Thank you for your time.

 

[CC_333]

Have you checked the PSU? It sounds like it's failing.

Try recapping it if you haven't already (if you have, then I guess it's time to look for another one). Uniserver can probably do it for you if you can't/don't feel confident enough to do it yourself.

If that doesn't work, then maybe there's some cap goo on the logic board somewhere that's still causing problems. Try giving it a thorough cleaning.

c

 

[tanuki65]

If it is the exact same chip and you don't bend anything and the chip works, then yes.

 

[NickNick]

Thanks for the replies! Much appreciated! I did swap out power supplies as I have another IIci as well as a Quadra 700 and a IIcx. All three PSU's exhibit the same symptoms when in that Machine.......Maybe I should put the MoBo through the dish washer as I swear that this machine did work at one point but then did this.....Before I rip chips off of it I will give that a go.

I believe they are the same chips... I will look more closely at what is required for the mac LCiii...

 

[LazarusNine]

Have you tried the oven reflow procedure? I've done it before and haven't suffered any ill effects. That said, it didn't solve my problem either! 

 

[MJ313]

<Uniserver>Sounds like maybe some residual cap goo on the board? Time to grab the acetone and a toothbrush and scrub under and around those ICs. Then a rinse in a tub of hot water with some dawn dish soap. Then compressor dry. Make sure to blow out all water from under the chips... it likes to hide under there </Uniserver>

 

[NickNick]

Thank you for the replies. Well I did put it through the dish washer, twice, and still the same results. I let it dry out fully in the sun for eight hours before I tested it. I think the board is toast unfortunately.

But also, I did remove the FPU chip and put it in the LC iii. It worked perfectly, easy to remove and popped right into the socket of the LC iii. It for sure makes a difference in the speed of the machine.

 

[LazarusNine]

Glad to hear it. About 6 months ago, I bought an FPU chip when they were going on eBay for what I now realise was probably a bit much. However, I dropped one in my LC III and was pleased to have essentially upgraded to a full 040. That said, I don't know if the speed effect is a bit of a placebo, because unless I'm attempting to render complex images or something of that nature, I'm not sure that there's any real ACTUAL difference to having the FPU in most cases. Is it called into play within the GUI at all? Games?

Anyway, I'm glad you made use of it, but I'm sorry to hear that a IIci met its end. That's probably one of my favourite machines - it's visually one of the most good-looking Macs.

 

[MJ313]

However, I dropped one in my LC III and was pleased to have essentially upgraded to a full 040.

LCIII full 040?

 

[NickNick]

To me what I noticed the most was it is allowing me to do more than one thing at a time with out massive stuttering. For instance. I can now have a song playing from movieplayer and opening up the control panel window as well as some control panels itself, like mouse and sound, with virtually no lag. Guess I should mention that This LCiii is speed bumped to 33 MHz and has max ram too.

 

[uniserver]

HAHAHA  MJ!!  love it...

the issue is right here.



here is some residual information to help you.

 

[LazarusNine]

LCIII full 040?

Full 030. Been working on my Quadra too much!

 

[z80.eu]

Hi !

I own also a Mac IIci and I was able after a long time of "no use", to start into Mac OS 7. A starting chime sound was not produced, but I can use the Mac OS desktop and click on anything with success, except there is no sound/beep generated, regardless of what I try.

I switched the computer off (by a menu entry), and after that, I tried to restart the computer again.

But the Mac IIci generates now repeating switch on switch off noise (a clicking noise, but very low/quiet, lasts 1/4 sec per switch on try and is repeated 1/4 sec again and again) and it does not start at all.

After another try, it even does not make clicking noise, just the the 3 led's are blinking in the same manner (while the power on key is pressed).

If I wait for more than an hour, it works again one time.

Any suggestions what is dead - capacitors ? Also the three diodes in row ? A replacement of the power supply did not help.

 

[MJ313]

If you haven't replaced the capacitors on the board, now's the time.

 

[z80.eu]

Really ALL capacitors ? There are bigger ones (blue, like a tube), smaller silver "pot-alike" ones and very small ones (orange, rectangular)...

I have examined the whole board (upper and lower side), I found only one unusual spot, see attached picture...

 

[MJ313]

Yes, sir. Here's a good pic of all the ones to replace.  (not sure which little orange ones you mean, but just check out the pic for the ones that gotta go)

http://maccaps.com/MacCaps/Capacitor_Reference/Entries/1989/9/20_Macintosh_IIci.html

 

[Schmoburger]

You dont need to worry so much about the small flat orange caps as they have a pretty much indefinite lifespan, but ALL the electrolytic capacitors should be replaced... surfacemounts, axials and radials. These  do have a finite lifespan, and most are well past the point where they can be expected to remain in spec and servicable. Age alone can cause them to degrade albeit slowly, and they are generally rated for a certain number of operational hours in a given temperature range... and the hotter they are during operation, the shorter the life. Eventually they will leak or blow, but even before they degrade to this point, they still can fall out of specification electrically after they surpass their rated life and cause operational faults.

As for that photo above, it appears that one or a number of the trio of surface mount caps have leaked and when the electroyte dries out it leaves a gummy residue that is conductive and is likely shorting pins on that pair of IC's adjacent them. If left, the goo can corrode components and even damage the PCB itself.

 

[Chapper]

Hi Z80.

I just unearthed my awesome IIci project from the 80's and it is exhibiting the exact same symptoms. So before I "run it through the dishwasher" or "replace every capacitor on the board" and other broad brush approaches that seem to defy all logic, let's dig into this and narrow it down. Wow, the diagram of the startup circuit for these things from uniserver is an awesome start, no! Let's figure out why the power circuit/power supply is doing this rather than starting the dishwasher and warming up the soldering iron. So here is my story with troubleshooting steps etc:

1. First time starting up with MB-based video, all good. 80 megs of RAM, System 7.5, internal 2 gig SCSI hard drive, a bunch of my old files, all good, 16 bit Missile Command with trackball, Pagemaker, Asante nic (I may try to get online with this using Netcrape 2.0), etc etc. Good Times.

2. Shut down to change my video card, restarted, clickety click power supply issue, no start.

3. Pulled Power Supply. Opened, fuses good fan spinning. Put it back in, started.

4. Shut down, popped in my Raster Ops 1988 "Millions of Colors" Nubus card, Excellent! back in business. Here's a pic: (tried to cut and paste a jpeg in, even after reducing it to 10% 68kMLA grumbled let me know how to bring in pics)

5. Now to test external SCSI with my custom external drive and 2x CD-Rom. Shut Down.

6. Attached external SCSI and terminated, set to SCSI 1, etc. Clickety Click issue, no start.

7. Pulled and reseated power supply, no change. Turned off power at power strip for 5 min, back on, no change.

8. Walked away to get on with my life and came back. Fired right up.

9. The CMOS battery (call it whatever you want, think different, it's still a CMOS battery) is completely dead, ie the date was 1901, and the time/date keeps changing etc. Please someone define the use of this battery (specifically for the IIci) beyond saving parameters at the base level (window settings, time, date, etc) A CMOS battery just like anything else that needs power to save volatile memory just like a PC, game console, etc etc etc. It is my understanding that this battery is only for this purpose and has nothing to do with whether the machine will boot or not.

10. Bring me into the know on the use of capacitors (on this model only IIci) to store and relay power. So is the unit in some sort of standby mode still pulling in power and these caps regulate that and keep it ready to boot??

11. We'll figure this out!! I need my xlnt example of Cupertino engineering to start every time I press the keyboard button, just like in the 80's.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Chapper]

MJ313, thanks for the info on the caps . . . I will look closer for leakage, but everything seems to look OK. Bad caps doesn't defy logic by the way, I'm taking that back. Just trying/hoping for a solution that doesn't involved beating on my mother board.

Cheers