L2 G3 Sonnet Crescendo / ATI RAGE128 compatibility issue?

[Jaek_3]

Hello everyone,

I have a 400mhz 512k Sonnet Crescendo L2 G3 card that normally works fine, but whenever I use it in tandem with an ATI Rage 128 card in a demanding 3D game the computer (internally a Power Macintosh 5500, in a Color Classic case) locks up in under a minute.

I was wondering if anyone had an idea what the problem might be?

 

[Phipli]

Hello everyone,

I have a 400mhz 512k Sonnet Crescendo L2 G3 card that normally works fine, but whenever I use it in tandem with an ATI Rage 128 card in a demanding 3D game the computer (internally a Power Macintosh 5500, in a Color Classic case) locks up in under a minute.

I was wondering if anyone had an idea what the problem might be?

Check for firmware updates for the Rage 128 and possibly play a little with driver versions for it too.

Do you have the Sonnet drivers installed? The latest version? I think 2.3 is the latest version? I'd need to double check.

 

[macuserman]

You might try your game with just either upgrade by itself and see if you can isolate if it is possibly just the G3 or just the Rage card.

 

[Skate323k137]

Does that ATI card have a heat sync or fan? If so has the heat sync been re thermal pasted?

I have used a couple sonnet CPUs with various ATI cards and never had and straight up hardware compatibility issues. Not to say they can't exist but I have had very good luck.

 

[Jaek_3]

Check for firmware updates for the Rage 128 and possibly play a little with driver versions for it too.

Do you have the Sonnet drivers installed? The latest version? I think 2.3 is the latest version? I'd need to double check.

I've confirmed Sonnet driver version 2.3.1 is installed.

You might try your game with just either upgrade by itself and see if you can isolate if it is possibly just the G3 or just the Rage card.

I have confirmed that both work in isolation, it´s only when I pair them together that problems arise.

Does that ATI card have a heat sync or fan? If so has the heat sync been re thermal pasted?

I have used a couple sonnet CPUs with various ATI cards and never had and straight up hardware compatibility issues. Not to say they can't exist but I have had very good luck.

The ATI card is just a bare PCB. It (and the Sonnet card) do get extremely hot, but no crash unless they´re paired together...

 

[Phipli]

It might be worth removing the Sonnet software and installing Powerlogix CPU Director instead. Once you have, use the program to make sure "Speculative Addressing" is turned off.

CPU Director for PowerLogix CPU Upgrade - Macintosh Garden

CPU Director for PowerLogix CPU upgrade for Beige G3 (and possibly others). Comes with extension for OS 9 and startup item for OS X. 1st download: CPU Director 1.5f5 for OS 8.1 – 10.2.8 2nd download: CPU Director 2.3b3 for OS 9.x & 10.3.x - 10.4.5 3rd download: CPU Director 2.3b6 for OS 9.x &...

macintoshgarden.org

I use this software with a sonnet card, although not an L2 type.

 

[Jaek_3]

Update, the computer just crashed again running Quake RAVE with the Sonnet card removed... so I guess that confirms the issue lies with the ATI card? I do wonder, though, since I am running this all on a highly modified "Takky" Color Classic, if there's some other cause for the incompatibility. Could there maybe be an issue with the power supply?

 

[Skate323k137]

Is the PSU recapped or new / have you checked voltages? I could see a crash if 5 or 3.3v is overdrawn.

 

[Jaek_3]

Is the PSU recapped or new / have you checked voltages? I could see a crash if 5 or 3.3v is overdrawn.

There are actually two PSUs in the machine, per this mod: https://powercc.org/psu/. The new one outputs just 5v. I do suspect a power issue because there's always a very slight distortion in the monitor display that gets worse the more stuff is added. It was a lot worse before the extra PSU was added, but it's still just barely there.

 

[Phipli]

This will silve any power problems!

DP-D Gen2 Series DC High-Performance Power Supplies - DSC-Electronics Germany

High-performance power supplies for laboratory and industry, RS232, RS485, LAN, USB, 19-inch format, digitally controlled up to 2kV / 5kA / 1MW / ØPL = 0.58€/W

dsc-electronics.de

 

[Jaek_3]

Ok, I've measured power on the 5v and 12v lines with my multimeter and got a constant 4.9 and 11.8v respectively, which I think should be alright?

Is the PSU recapped or new / have you checked voltages? I could see a crash if 5 or 3.3v is overdrawn.

What exactly is the purpose of the 3.3v line? I actually had to install a 3.3v regulator from the 5v line to supply 3.3v to the logic board, because apparently that´s needed for my model logic board. I am using very thin wires to do that, maybe that's the problem?

 

[Skate323k137]

Ok, I've measured power on the 5v and 12v lines with my multimeter and got a constant 4.9 and 11.8v respectively, which I think should be alright?


What exactly is the purpose of the 3.3v line? I actually had to install a 3.3v regulator from the 5v line to supply 3.3v to the logic board, because apparently that´s needed for my model logic board. I am using very thin wires to do that, maybe that's the problem?

The reason it came to mind is actually from other systems I've seen crash in similar conditions.

Older TTL logic is usually 5V. For a lot of stuff that drives the main logic, but, when you get to more complicated IC's, 3.3v logic is way more common. Overdrawing that is common when CPU or GPU intensive operations occur on an old power supply (or potentially you may need better supply wire(s)).

 

[Jaek_3]

By the way, I also have a MAXpowr that crashes the machine within minutes even idle. I bring it up because the crash looks identical to when my ATI card crashes in an intense game. At first I thought the MAXpowr card was defective, but now I'm thinking these might be related phenomena.

 

[Phipli]

Ok, I've measured power on the 5v and 12v lines with my multimeter and got a constant 4.9 and 11.8v respectively, which I think should be alright?


What exactly is the purpose of the 3.3v line? I actually had to install a 3.3v regulator from the 5v line to supply 3.3v to the logic board, because apparently that´s needed for my model logic board. I am using very thin wires to do that, maybe that's the problem?

The 3.3v mod is needed for the PCI. Older macs with the plug in logic boards didn't have PCI and so didn't need 3.3V. Newer ones have PCI, so the pinout on the logic board edge connector was changed to add the needed 3.3V.

It might be that your 3.3V regulator is too weak for the video card?

 

[Jaek_3]

The 3.3v mod is needed for the PCI. Older macs with the plug in logic boards didn't have PCI and so didn't need 3.3V. Newer ones have PCI, so the pinout on the logic board edge connector was changed to add the needed 3.3V.

It might be that your 3.3V regulator is too weak for the video card?

What would make my regulator weak? I'm using a TSR 1-2433 regulator from Traco Power. I just tested the output with my multimeter and I get 3.2v.

 

[PlaceboKoyote]

I've confirmed Sonnet driver version 2.3.1 is installed.


I have confirmed that both work in isolation, it´s only when I pair them together that problems arise.


The ATI card is just a bare PCB. It (and the Sonnet card) do get extremely hot, but no crash unless they´re paired together...

I've personally never seen a Rage 128 without at least a heat sink. Like not even a picture of one.

Sone do have tiny heat sinks with a fan, some have bigger heatsinks without etc.

Maybe try to add a heatsink.

Also they can behave odd. I have a rage 128 (with a fan) that only works when cold. Like i can boot into tiger, use the System, but as soon as the card gets hot it becomes glitchy and sometimes it will even lock up.
And i can't restart. As in: i reboot, Mac OS boots up, i can hear the "knocking on glass" clicking sound for example and the HDD go up etc. It will even play music from a cd if it does it auromatically. But i don't get an Image.

 

[Skate323k137]

What would make my regulator weak? I'm using a TSR 1-2433 regulator from Traco Power. I just tested the output with my multimeter and I get 3.2v.

Levels are good to check, but if the data sheet for that regulator is right it only has 1A max, which isn't much as far as modern PCI goes.

 

[Powerbase]

Some of the early revision Rage 128s from the B&W G3s shipped without heatsinks. I have one and I think they're supposedly clocked slightly lower too.

 

[Phipli]

What would make my regulator weak? I'm using a TSR 1-2433 regulator from Traco Power. I just tested the output with my multimeter and I get 3.2v.

As Skate323k137 mentioned, its a 1A regulator, so there would be potentially issues if the card was drawing more than that, but I don't know how much 3.3V a Rage 128 draws.

 

[Skate323k137]

Does the Sonnet CPU pull 3.3v? My thinking is both devices drawing on 3.3v would almost certainly sink it.