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IIsiColorPivotII_PDS_Card_HackProject™

bigmessowires

Well-known member
I was thinking more about an adapter cable with a ball switch for pivoting like Trash suggested, or maybe just one with a regular hand-operated switch. But then I realized - where would that switch actually go? The adapter cable would go from the 15x1 header on the Pivot card to the video connector on the IIsi's back panel, so it would be entirely enclosed inside the IIsi. Having a switch inside the computer itself isn't all that useful. :)

Maybe you could drill a little hole or use some other opening for two extra wires, so you could put a hand-operated switch on the outside of the case. That would work if you're willing to drill. But for the ball switch, it needs to be mounted on the monitor, not on the Mac. That's maybe another 4 feet away down the video cable, at the other end where the cable plugs into the monitor. I suppose you could use 8 feet of wire to build an out-and-back connection to the ball switch, and thread it through a hole drilled in the case, and then glue or zip-tie these new wires to your Mac-to-monitor cable. But that sounds pretty yuck to me.

Another possibility would be to split this into two parts: a 15x1 header to DB-15 adapter cable that lives inside the Mac's case, but doesn't do anything related to pivoting, and then an external pass-through dongle with the pivoting switch. If you put this at the Mac end of the cable, then it's basically just like building your own Mac-to-VGA dongle, like the MacFly or any of the others you can find on eBay for a few dollars. It could be a little simpler, with just a single "pivot" button instead of all those DIP switches, but it would basically be the same idea.

If you wanted a dongle thing at the monitor end of the cable, so you could use a ball switch for pivoting, then you'd need a Mac monitor cable (DB-15 cable) to connect the Mac to the dongle. I don't know how common those are, but certainly less common than standard VGA cables.

This all seems a little complicated. Anyone see a simpler way to do it?

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
. . . If you wanted a dongle thing at the monitor end of the cable, so you could use a ball switch for pivoting, then you'd need a Mac monitor cable (DB-15 cable) to connect the Mac to the dongle. I don't know how common those are, but certainly less common than standard VGA cables.
This all seems a little complicated. Anyone see a simpler way to do it?
Yup, I always figured you'd do it by making a Mac->VGA type adapter for the VGA input of the LCD, hijack a pair of unused lines off the standard VGA cable at the disconnect/reconnect point in the "pivot adapter" where your ball seitch is located and just bolt it right up between the pivot LCD and Standard VGA Cable.

Neolithic VidCard and Mac intentionally hobbled by Rudimentary (RAM Sucking Vampire) Video hacked to put currently shipping computers to shame. ;)

Neh? :?:

 

tsillay

Active member
WOOHOO.. Living proof that the RCP IIsi card will work in an SE/30.

IMAG0095.jpg

I'm going to mull over a way to make a riser card or PDS extension whozit that will make it fit in the case...

 

tsillay

Active member
I just knocked a quick and dirty cable up...

Internal greyscale has also occurred to me.. :b&w: .. First thing is to get it to fit inside the case, in a form that the ethernet card will also fit in the passthrough...

then I'll have to figure out if I can run the crt at a higher scan rate..

I also reckon it'd be possible to overclock the thing to 20mhz, now that we've got a display that's not relying on the CPU clock for sync signals..

where do 20mhz '030 chips come from? Is the iisi mobo 030 socketed???

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Dynamite, Great achievement, hats off to you, tsillay! :approve:

No /30 to play with . . . :/

. . . would moving the RCPII/IIsi up one level make it a better or worse fit with a single PDS slot offset unit?

Would that set it forward or backward in the chassis and what might be in the way?

I've been seriously considering lopping the top extension and most of the connector pins right off the sucker for a while now as a solution to the SE/30 problem.

I'm removing the connector on mine anyway to solder wiring directly into the thru holes. Tracing (so to speak) the SMT components on that section back to their origins on the balance of the card shouldn't be too difficult. I'm thinking along the lines of using discrete radial resistors etc. to complete the circuitry to the loped off through holes for the connector, just wiring straight to them for the cable connections. We're only talking a maximum of eight components after all.

I can't find the pics, but I think that extension was the problem when someone (CC?) tried it in an SE/30 at ground level.

 

techknight

Well-known member
It shouldnt be too difficult to go greyscale. I am sure the card will recognize the ID settings, so set the ID jumpers to 512x342, that way the card wont overdo the internal monitor. Then cut the video signal going to the analog board, and route it over to the card. Now I dont know if the horizontal/vertical sync is going to be the same sync as the analog board. If so, then you only need the video wire. If not, then you have to run all 3 signals over.

For Grayscale, You need to mix the R-G-B signals via resistors, say 10ohms, or 100ohms, into the analog board video signal. This way the card can be in color or grayscale and wouldnt make a difference in picture appearance.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
I never did get a readout on the Sync Rate of the 12"RGB, but I just dug that info up in the service source:

Picture Tube

12-in. viewable diagonal screen

90° deflection angle; black matrix-type dot screen

Phosphor type P22 (aluminized)

Spherical, antiglare surface

Screen Resolution

512x384 lines; 64 dpi

Displays up to 256 colors with Macintosh Display Card 4•8 and

16.7 million colors with Macintosh Display Card 8•24

Scan Rates

Vertical refresh rate: 60.15 Hz

Horizontal scan rate: 24.48 kHz

Rise and fall time: 27 ns maximum

I don't know how well that output from the RCPII/IIsi will mesh with the SE/30, but hopefully it's a start. ;D

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
WOOHOO.. Living proof that the RCP IIsi card will work in an SE/30.
< snip >

I'm going to mull over a way to make a riser card or PDS extension whozit that will make it fit in the case...
Check earlier in the thread, there's already a PDS Riser Card available from the same source as your card. All you need do is the Wrong Angle Connector Hack to get a straight up riser with noise reduction/over-voltage(?) protection upgrade option.

I'm dying to know if you did a DA-15 connector cable to hook up to a VGA Adapter or if you did your conversion within the wiring lashup to an HD-15 socket for a standard VGA cable hook up? A rough diagram would be much appreciated, I can whomp it up in Illustrator for a clear diagram either way. [;)] ]'>

 

tsillay

Active member
there's already a PDS Riser Card available from the same source as your card
Ah. I totally missed that. I thought that ebay card was the Nubus adaptor card for the IIsi and would have all sorts of things I dont need..

I took a bit of ribbon cable, soldered it direct to the rear of the 15 pin connector on the card. I wired the other end straight to a vga style D15 female. Then it's standard vga cables all the way. I'll try a few different sense combinations once I find some diodes...

I've got to fix the slot address decoding problem on that mobo. the onboard declrom turns up in 4 slots, the iisi card in two so I've got a floating address line somewhere..

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Nice job! I've just gotta see a rough diagram! :?:

As I understand it, the PDS slot adapter can use two available Interrupt/Slot Manager IDs (it might be three, dunno offhand, have you got the Tech notes, Service Source etc?) I think onboard Video is assigned the first one and the NuBus Signal Line uses the fourth Slot ID. I'm going from hazy memory though, It has been a while since I've been elbow deep in the SuperIIsiHack™ Project Box . . .

. . . bbraun had some fabulous input on interrupts somewhere in the related threads . . . :approve:

. . . have fun looking though! ;D

 

tsillay

Active member
Wiring is exactly the same as was discovered above. With sense 0 and 2 tied it thinks an RGB16 is connected, so runs at 832/624. The LCD just hangs onto it...

The 'pivot' column corresponds to the pins on the rcp card connector , the 'vga' column to the pins on a d15f vga socket...

PIVOT VGA

1,6,13 4,5,6,7,8 VIDEO GND

2 1 RED VIDEO

4,10 NC PINS 4 & 10 JUMPERED TOGETHER ON PIVOT END OF CABLE

5 2 GREEN VIDEO

9 3 BLUE VIDEO

11 11 C & V SYNC GND

12 14 V SYNC

14 10 H SYNC GND

15 13 H SYNC

I'm dying to try and tell it an RGB12 is connected, then route vsync, hsync and the color lines to the internal mon... Praps tonight after work...

Yup, I've had a huge read through all the hardware / software manuals over the last few months.. Convinced meself the interrupt handling is fine, but the slot manager is finding the same declroms in more than one memory location during startup... It means onboard video is in all the even slots, so I have to put the rcp card in slot 9... which is a bugger, because that's where I need the enet card to be... which is a bigger bugger, because I have no other way of getting software on the thing other than through the enet... I may give in and resurrect an old windows machine with a floppy, then try and find some 2D floppies... then I could load the radius control panels, it's only a vanilla system 755 with no extensions..

so little time, so many porcupines..... ;-)

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
You don't have both MoBo ROM and ROM SIMM in there with the jumper setting wrong by any chance? Sounds crazy, I know, but I don't understand how you have multiple copies going.

Are you using TattleTech, SlotInfo or some other utility to get your results? If you're dumping the ROM, they customarily have a lot of copies stuck in every which way for some reason of other.

I'll try to get mine up and running after I run a couple of errands. I'll let you know how I set the IDs for RCPII/IIsi and the Asante Card to run together if you haven't found that info in the mess of IIsi threads linked in my main thread.

 

tsillay

Active member
Thanks..

Even with nothing in the expansion slots, the onboard SE30 screen appears 4 times in the monitors control panel. The ethernet card (irq9) has a utility that lets you look at what's in the slots. it shows the onboard video in slot 2,6,A,E..

So my logic goes something like...

- the slots are adressed at $F000 0000 (slot 0)

- up to $FE00 0000 (slot E) with slot F reserved.

A bit of binary headscratching and I arrive at the conclusion that A25 has somehow become primarily responsible for the chip select for the onboard declrom. Once I get a chance I'll sit down with a scope and have another poke around...

I'm stuck in a cache22 at the moment. I've only got stuffit7 on the thing, (which wont run on 030) and I cant find a way of downloading and installing stuffit 4 or 5 without stuffit. Which means I cant install slotinfo or macsbug,resedit or anything usefull.

While I've got the brainstrust, when I download from internet using netscape3 on the 030, should the resource fork et al be intact? eg, If I can find an original install (or smi) of stuffit, it'll just download and work?

or is there an ascii/bin/mac/pc gremlin at play???

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Not a clue, ask in the Compacts forum and explain the problems you're having again in there. I've only ever had one SE/30 and I never used it for much but holding a shelf down after messing with it for a while because it was a freebie from Goodwill back in da Bronyx. I'd hooked a bunch of other Macs together with peripherals to make them salable systems. When I asked the manager what he wanted for the /30 he said: "Thank you, just take it and go!" [:)] ]'>

That said, first question: I don't think you've said, what ROM are you using? I'd suggest using a IIsi ROM SIMM to get 32bit Cleanliness and maybe a little bit more RCPII/IIsi tolerance if that's not what you're already using.

Suggestion, if you have any computer that can talk to one, get a SCSI Zip Drive and a couple of disks. If you don't, get one anyway and a USB version for whatever you're using to get online. Figure out what you need besides SCSI Guest and the Zip Driver for . . .

. . . what OS are you running anyway? :?:

You really need to spell out all the specifics like RAM, ROM, OS, extensions, etc. in the Compact Mac forum to get help with this.

At any rate maybe I can put the iomega drivers and TattleTech on a Floppy, dunno about the other stuff you might need. What I suggested is free or a public domain release as I understand it.

jt

 

techknight

Well-known member
As far as getting this thing to fit, My idea is this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENERIC-96-PIN-MALE-EUROCARD-DIN-CONNECTORS-3-pcs-/171027189841?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d203d051

Swap the right angle eurodin connector to a streight version, this way you can mount the card flat on the mainboard. Assuming it clears everything of course. Other options involve using a bunch of ribbon cable with eurodins on each end, but this requires a ground between each and every signal wire to prevent crosstalk and signal reflections/skewing, Maybe get lucky and find such an adapter pre-made?

Or, draft up a simple 2-layer PCB to extend it up just into the bucket.

 

techknight

Well-known member
Something I just noticed, the pinout of that pivot card header is identical to the standard DB15 pinout of the mac video connector on the Apple Sense ID page that was linked earlier in this thread.

 
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