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How to install software on Macintosh Plus?

naujoks

Member
I just got a Macintosh Plus and a Powerbook 180 and I'm new to the whole Mac universe, so please forgive the noob question.
I couldn't find a sticky on that subject, though I imagine my question is one that many people now to the subject will have.
How do I get software on to the Macintosh/Powerbook?
My Mac has a HDD and 800kB floppy disk drive, so what I've done was take a DOS formatted floppy disk, put the programs on it and transferred it to the PowerBook, From there I put it on a 800kB floppy.
Most software I found was as .SIT files, which the Mac can't use. The Stuffit Expander for my OS (System 6 on Mac, System 7 on PB) comes as a disk image, but how do I get a disk image on to a disk? The disk image software i found can't be executed, it is a file (without any extension), which has "PC" as its icon
I tried to extract the files from the .SIT files with Stuffit Expander for Windows, only to find that there is another .SIT file inside, and trying to expand that gives an error.
So I can transfer files on to the Mac/PB, which is good, but I haven't been able to find any files that I cold actually run.
Could someone help me out and tell me what I need to do?
Also, I'd like to upgrade the Mac's OS to 7.5. How would I do that?
 

Phipli

Well-known member
Also, I'd like to upgrade the Mac's OS to 7.5. How would I do that?
If you mean on the Plus, I wouldn't recommend that, it's a bit too memory hungry for a plus.

Do either of your computers have stuffit expander on them? Do they have 'Disk Copy'?

Be aware that only certain file formats can go on a PC format floppy without being corrupted.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
This isn't going to be easy sorry. You're trying to move files from a computer that just doesn't accept the existence of the Plus' disk format.

I'm not a windows user, but suspect you'll have to use something like this to get files onto the PB :


to make a disk with Stuffit Expander 4.0.1 on it in the Mac format. I don't know where you will get an appropriate image. But you could probably make one using basilisk. Or I could possibly make one. <Edit - see my next post> I'm unsure about the needed disk image format.

Then there are two stuffit file types, both with .sit (remember, old macs don't care about file extensions in the file name, they do it differently). Version 4 files are corrupted if they are put in a PC disk. Version 5 ones aren't, but Version 5 doesn't work on System 6.

When moving a Version 4 sit, you need to save them in a .bin to protect them from corruption when on a PC floppy or hard disk. This can be done in with "DropStuff" by changing the preferences. You can run DropStuff within the basilisk emulator on your PC.

So, we need to get you a mac formatted image with Stuffit Expander 4 on it.
Then you need to make .sit.bin files of software you need (where the sit is a version 4 sit, which most downloads aren't- likely uncompressed them in an emulator, then recompressing them with DropStuff 4 set to create a .bin).
The .bin files can be moved to the PB on a PC disk.

The Plus will not read PC disks. So you need to create a mac 800k disk, and copy files onto it using the PB. First thing to move to the Plus from the PB would be Stuffit Expander 4, uncompressed, on a mac 800k disk.

Again, this is not going to be easy. You're moving between completely incompatible platforms over a 30 year void.
 
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Phipli

Well-known member
Try this with the linked instructions. I included ResEdit which you might need, and an Astroids clone so you can at least play that when you get frustrated.

Uncompress the zip, but do not mount the image on windows. Just write it.
 

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naujoks

Member
Floppy Emu is so expensive 😔
Will I be able to install the system software and other software if I just get ZuluSCSI? Or will I need Floppy Emu as well as ZuluSCSI?
 

Phipli

Well-known member
Floppy Emu is so expensive 😔
Will I be able to install the system software and other software if I just get ZuluSCSI? Or will I need Floppy Emu as well as ZuluSCSI?
You can put disk images on the SD card from a modern computer for the ZuluSCSI.

The ZuluSCSI and FloppyEMU are both expensive. The ZuluSCSI is sort of more flexible and if you get an external one and the right adapter cable, you can use it as a big portable hard disk on both machines.

Another option is to buy a late 90s mac that has serial ports, floppy drive and ethernet. Sometimes you can get one for not a whole lot of money (a Beige G3 is a good option), slap a USB card in it and then you can use a pen drive to move things onto the G3, and use it to move files to floppy disks or over localtalk networking to the Powerbook or Plus.

The truth is it is difficult or expensive to move files to such old machines that use disk formats that aren't supported by much modern hardware.
 

Paralel

Well-known member
If you're a Windows user, and using a recent version of Windows, the best way to get the software onto a disk is to use WinImage. It can open uncompressed IMG and DSK files and write them to a 1.4 MB floppy in a format that your PB 180 can understand, which will allow you to bring them over to an 800k floppy that your Plus can understand. WinImage can't view the contents of a Mac HFS IMG or DSK file, but it will write it without issue.

As far as getting the DSK file, I would suggest starting with this one:


Inside the ZIP is a DSK file that already has Stuffit on it. Write this to disk using WinImage and you will hopefully be set to go.

If this doesn't work, let me know, and then I can write up how to make custom DSK files using some pieces of software on Windows.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
As far as getting the DSK file, I would suggest starting with this one:
This is where I got Stuffit Expander 4 from, I just added Resedit and a game.

They'll probably end up needing ResEdit to fix type/creator codes.
 

naujoks

Member
Thank you, WinImage was a great suggestion.
I found .dsk images with Stuffit and Disk Copy and manage to get those apps on the computers now.
Thankfully most .sit files that I put on a DOS formatted 1.44MB DOS disk work without any further conversion.
Just the one game I really wanted, Infocom's Journey, doesn't work, but perhaps the .sit file is corrupted.
Can I upgrade the PB from OS 7.5 to 7.5.3 somehow or will I have to wipe the hard drive completely?
 

MacKilRoy

Well-known member
Thank you, WinImage was a great suggestion.
I found .dsk images with Stuffit and Disk Copy and manage to get those apps on the computers now.
Thankfully most .sit files that I put on a DOS formatted 1.44MB DOS disk work without any further conversion.
Just the one game I really wanted, Infocom's Journey, doesn't work, but perhaps the .sit file is corrupted.
Can I upgrade the PB from OS 7.5 to 7.5.3 somehow or will I have to wipe the hard drive completely?

If you download the disk images and write them to disks, you can upgrade the PowerBook to 7.5.3 in place, I believe.

Try the first download here:


It says that it's the set of floppy disk images in a zip file.
 

naujoks

Member
Concerning disk images:
Some of the software I wanted to install comes as disk images (file extension .dsk).
When starting Disc Copy on the PB and wanting to open a disk image, these .dsk files aren't showing up.
What could the reason for that be?
 

Paralel

Well-known member
Concerning disk images:
Some of the software I wanted to install comes as disk images (file extension .dsk).
When starting Disc Copy on the PB and wanting to open a disk image, these .dsk files aren't showing up.
What could the reason for that be?

Disc Copy only works with IMG files, not DSK. DSK is basically a raw snapshot of a disk image. One way to use a DSK with a mac is to write it to a physical disk using a program that can write DSK files. Disc Copy can work with IMG files, both uncompressed and compressed (depending on the version you are using). IMG files are basically just DSK files with a header on them, if I'm remembering correctly, but Disc Copy will ignore a DSK file because it is missing info the program uses to identify the file as a valid disk image.

I believe the software DiskDup can read and mount a DSK file. If that fails you can probably try MungeImage.

Edit: Nope, I was wrong.
 
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joshc

Well-known member
Disc Copy only works with IMG files, not DSK. DSK is basically a raw snapshot of a disk image. One way to use a DSK with a mac is to write it to a physical disk using a program that can write DSK files. Disc Copy can work with IMG files, both uncompressed and compressed (depending on the version you are using). IMG files are basically just DSK files with a header on them, if I'm remembering correctly, but Disc Copy will ignore a DSK file because it is missing info the program uses to identify the file as a valid disk image.

I believe the software DiskDup can read and mount a DSK file.
Disk Copy works fine with .dsk images - they are the same as img.

1679325073342.png

1679325085431.png

1679325184028.png

It sounds like the files @naujoks is using have lost their resource fork or is using the wrong version of Disk Copy.
 

Paralel

Well-known member
Disk Copy works fine with .dsk images - they are the same as img.

View attachment 53893

View attachment 53894

View attachment 53895

It sounds like the files @naujoks is using have lost their resource fork or is using the wrong version of Disk Copy.

If the res fork is lost/damaged, can a DSK file still be used by restoring creator/type, or is it just crunked for good?

If the DSK file has lost its res fork, WinImage should still be able to write it to physical media.
 

olePigeon

Well-known member
@naujoks You need to make sure to have a few things on your PowerBook.
  • Stuffit Expander 4.5 (You already have this.)
  • Disk Copy 6.x (You already have this.)
  • Snitch 1.0.1 (no need for serial numbers. Just drag into your System Folder and restart.)
All files you download to your PC will have their resource forks stripped, which means that for files that don't depend on resource forks (like a .dsk file), the Mac will "forget" what type of file it is. So you'll need to change that. With Snitch installed on your PowerBook, Get Info on the .dsk file on your PowerBook by selecting the file and going to File menu, then Get Info (or ⌘-i )

Set the Type to "dimg" and the Creator to "ddsk"

snitch.png

Close the window. It will now mount with Disk Copy.

You can also write a .dsk file to disk using WinImage and read it directly from your PowerBook.

I have a selection of software you might find useful on my website. Most everything has been converted to a .dsk file (inside the RAW folders) to make it easy to use on a PC or emulator. My website is also vintage Mac friendly, so if you can get either of your vintage Macs onto the internet, you can download software directly to the computers via my website.

To get files onto your Macintosh Plus, you'll need to use 800K (720K) floppy disks. Or, you could also set up an AppleTalk network. A bit pokey by today's standards, but it gets the job done. :)
 
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