HOW TO DOWNLOAD LARGE FILES FROM THE WEB

[Rjp663]

Seeking some advice on how to download files larger than 1.4MB from the web (Mac Repository or Macintosh Garden).  I'm running into the 1.4MB "Floppy bottleneck". Meaning how do I get larger compressed files that won't fit on a floppy disk onto my Classic II hard drive?

Thank you

 

[goodguess]

Much will depend on the other computers you can make use of.

I was using Basilsik II Build 142 for Windows quite a bit to move files to and from Mac SCSI devices.

You might also make use of BMOW´s floppy emulator or a SCSI2SD / SCSI2CF device.

For a slow transfer solution, there is always null-modem, as described e.g. here: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/null-modem

On a side note, please be aware that MacRepo is a rip off from Macintoshgarden, not counting rare exceptions.

 

[LaPorta]

One way that has always been easy is to Use DiskDoubler. It will break a single file into multiple, floppy-sized files you only need to set it to do so. The DD program itself is small and can fit on a floppy to get over to your Classic II. You can then use the program to re-combine the files into one over on the Classic II.

 

[Torbar]

One way that has always been easy is to Use DiskDoubler. It will break a single file into multiple, floppy-sized files you only need to set it to do so. The DD program itself is small and can fit on a floppy to get over to your Classic II. You can then use the program to re-combine the files into one over on the Classic II.

You know, I've seen the name DiskDoubler several times, but I always figured it was some kind of disk compression software for hard drives, so I ignored it thinking "I have plenty of space on all my machines, why bother!"

Now I wish I had looked into it in the past, that would have come in handy so many times!

 

[LaPorta]

It is pretty amazing how well it works. Obviously, its usefulness diminished with time, and .sit and .zip became standards. However, even today, I will use it to, for example, transfer new games to my kids' Quadra 630 custom mac that only has a floppy drive and no ethernet.

 

[ArmorAlley]

Seeking some advice on how to download files larger than 1.4MB from the web (Mac Repository or Macintosh Garden).  I'm running into the 1.4MB "Floppy bottleneck". Meaning how do I get larger compressed files that won't fit on a floppy disk onto my Classic II hard drive?

I use one of three techniques:

 1. Mac Mini G4 with 512MB running Mac OS 9.2.2 (although I'm sure mac OS X 10.3, 10.4 or 10.5 is fine). Download software via Classilla or TenFourFox. I have a LAN set up but sneakernet (see below) will also work. As will burning CDs if you have a SCSI CD-ROM for your Classic II.

 2. Burn the downloaded files or image onto CD. You will need a SCSI CD-ROM drive though for your Classic II. It is very much worth while to invest in one of these. 4-speed is good. The Mac Mini G4 can do this as can many Macs & PCs.

 3. Sneakernet: You need two disk-drives: one SCSI and one USB or FW.  The former is plugged into your Classic II, the latter into the machine that does the downloading. What disk-system you use doesn't really matter. I personally prefer MO (magneto-optical) but Jaz & Zip are also popular alternatives. You don't even need that many disks. 3 will do you fine.

 4. A fourth option has just come to mind: PowerBook SCSI-Disk mode. If you have a Wallstreet with enough memory, you can download the software onto your Wallstreet, although I imagine that this will be slooow. You can then connect the Wallstreet directly to your Classic II by means of a 30-pin PowerBook SCSI cable.

 5. A fifth option is using a bridge machine with a more modern machine. A bridge machine is a pre-B&W PCI-PowerMac. Essentially any Mac between 1996 and 1998. This will allow you to access downloaded files from your Classic II. The Classic II is connected to the bridge mac by means of LocalTalk (a serial connection that is even slower than the Wallstreet). The bridge mac is connected to the more modern machine by means of EtherTalk and the modern machine must not be too modern. I have never done it myself but others have. There is a great site here on mac networking: http://applefool.com/se30/.

 6. There is the old-school way of doing it, namely with a modem, but this is expensive, slow and I have no idea how the Mac Garden looks with a 68K browser. I used to use a IIsi to go online, but this was back in 1995. The WWW is a very different beast nowadays and I wouldn't recommend this at all.

Be warned about floppies, though: 1. the floppy drive on your Classic II is almost 30 years' old. It may very well need a re-greasing soon: 2. In my experience, 30-year-old floppies don't last long. I make a point of archiving whatever floppies I have. New floppies aren't made anymore. In short, I regard them as unreliable. I am open to contradiction on this point.

On DiskDoubler: DiskDoubler is brilliant. When I was a university student, I stored all of my software using DiskDoubler. I particularly like making SEAs (self-extracting archives). When I first found Civilization on an SE in the library, eMail and DiskDoubler turned out to be my friend. Well, partially, Civilization didn't help my final grade in my degree very much. There are 3 versions that I used all of the time: 3.7, 3.7.7 and 4.0. Have a look the various entries in the Mac garden. It is very flexible and customisable.

 

[LaPorta]

I agree on the floppies. I have a large stock (100 or so) of floppies I have had those 30+ years. About a year ago, I went through and pitched any that had gross errors (wouldn't format). The rest I keep just for transfers and such. One thing that I have consistently been amazed at: if stored properly, the 800ks from Sony, etc, that have plastic that makes them built like tanks usually survive and work well. They were built in a time when HDs were VERY expensive and not the norm, and had to be relied on to store data. The 1.4s from the 90s made of cheap, flimsy plastic were made mostly to just swap and temporarily transfer files to and from HDs (not to mention get your copy of AOL 3.0 from Blockbuster to home), and no one really cared about long term viability.

 

[goodguess]

One more solution to consider maybe: https://www.savagetaylor.com/2020/12/15/appletalk-from-windows-linux-osx-to-a-68k-macintosh-using-basilisk-ii-apple-remote-access-personal-server-ara-ps-and-a-usb-serial-null-modem-cable/

 

[JT737]

I have a method for moving big files that usually works well, but like all of the other ones here, it does require a few steps.  Also, your receiving computer will have to have a SCSI2SD drive.

                                                  1.)  Download the file using the computer of your choice; many times, I will download files simply using one of my Windows 10 machines.

                                                  2.)  Transfer the files to a "bridge" computer-in my case, I use a 2002 Powerbook G4 with OS 10; Use a method that best suits you to transfer the files (I simply use a 64Gb flash drive).

                                                  3.)  Pull out the SD card from the SCSI2SD drive of the computer you want the files to go to (for me this is usually my SE/30).

                                                  4.)  Use a card reader to hook it up to your bridge computer. 

                                                  5.) Now, simply drag and drop the files onto the SD card of the receiving computer.

                                                  6.)  Put the SD card back into your receiving computer and boot- be sure to put them in a location you'll remember!

Hope this helps!

 

[LaPorta]

Only issue with the above is constantly removing the SD card by opening the machine, etc. I know, some people run a cable/dongle.

 

[Garrett]

Using a FloppyEmu, you can create a hard drive (HD-20) emulation volume (disk image) on the microSD card and load the files into volume that via Basilisk II or Mini vMac (using the ImportFl utility.) I've done this a few times and it has worked quite well for transferring files, including large files.

Edit-

Steps:

1. Download the "Blanks" ZIP from the Gryphel project. The ZIP file contains a number of blank volumes, with capacities ranging from 400k to 224 MB.
   
2. Choose a volume size and copy over onto the microSD card from the FloppyEmu.
   
3. Open Mini vMac or Basilisk II. Initialize the new volume.
   
4. Using B II or Mini vMac (ImportFl utility), copy the files into the VM and then to the new volume.
   
5. Close the emulator and eject your microSD card. Install microSD card into the FloppyEmu, connect to the Classic II/machine, turn on.
   
6. Make sure the FlEmu is set for HD-20/hard drive emulation mode, and the new volume is selected. (This may require hard restarting the Classic II a couple times.)
   
7. The new volume should appear on the desktop. Copy the files from the FlEmu volume to your hard drive.
   

Edit 2-

Unlike the SCSI-2-SD option, this doesn't require disassembling the machine. The FloppyEmu plugs right into the floppy port on the back of the Mac. If you don't have either yet, I recommend the FlEmu personally, but the SCSI-2-SD is a good option for replacing an internal drive.

 

[Cory5412]

(although I'm sure mac OS X 10.3, 10.4 or 10.5 is fine)

Unfortunately, 10.4+ don't actually speak AppleTalk out of their file servers. AppleTalk-the-network-stack remained in 10.4 for discoverability and for printer sharing only. 10.2 or 10.3 will be suitable for file sharing.

Unless, you also have a MacIP Gateway or similar and the Classic II can speak IP.

I agree very much that networking is probably the easiest strategy here. Get an Ethertalk to Localtalk adapter and an OS9-10.3 system, download the stuff onto there, heck, use the faster system to decompress stuff, and then access it over the network.

You can even do this with properly equipped VMs (macipgw, a2server, windows NT4-2003 server, or emulators) that you leave running.

I have no idea how the Mac Garden looks with a 68K browser.

It does work with v4 browsers, it should work with v3 browsers, but I had an 1152x870 display on an 840av, unfortunately I imagine it would be "bad" with a Classic II. (I should see about setting up an IP gateway at some point, perhaps I could give it a go.)

This was part of the idea behind vtools, but that part of it has stalled out. MacGarden has started work on adding other access methods, if I'm remembering correctly (hotline/ftp/afp) but I don't know the details there.

 

[ArmorAlley]

I agree very much that networking is probably the easiest strategy here. Get an Ethertalk to Localtalk adapter and an OS9-10.3 system, download the stuff onto there, heck, use the faster system to decompress stuff, and then access it over the network.

I had forgotten about the EtherTalk to LocalTalk adapter. There exists also SCSI ethernet adapters, such as the Asante EN/SC. They are pricey and rare but very much worthwhile if you'd like to get your Classic II on a network. I use a mac mini G4 as the OS9-10.3 system mentioned in the example above.

The FloppyEmu that @Garrett mentioned is a good idea. They are made by BigMessOWires and you can find them here: https://www.bigmessowires.com/shop/product/floppy-emu-model-c-bundle/

@JT737's idea is also very workable when you use it externally. Either the SCSI2SD v5.5 (which just plugs into your SCSi port) or mounting one a SCSI2SD v5.0, v5.1, v5.2 in an external SCSI case with the SD card easy to access and easy to remove: Link to SCSi2SD: https://www.scsi2sd.com/index.php?title=SCSI2SD

This was part of the idea behind vtools, but that part of it has stalled out. MacGarden has started work on adding other access methods, if I'm remembering correctly (hotline/ftp/afp) but I don't know the details there.

If you can get better networking, vTools might be just the thing you need. It has a subscription based model and there is more info here: http://vtools.stenoweb.net/index.html

 

[Garrett]

If you (OP) don't have a FloppyEmu, I would suggest getting the $140 "bundle" if you can. The acrylic case looks pretty snazzy and makes it easier to carry, and the microSD card already comes with a lot of software and utilities already installed. There are included 20 MB (?) and 100 MB volumes, which already contain System 4 and System 6.0.8 respectively. (Link here to my thoughts on the FloppyEmu, with a follow up post on HD-20 emulation, on my personal blog.)

As mentioned, the FloppyEmu and its hard drive emulation mode has served me well with transferring large files. Personally I like how it has both floppy and hard drive/HD-20 emulation modes. The FloppyEmu is easy to learn and use, and allows you to have multiple volumes stored on the same microSD card.

Out of curiosity, will the SCSI-2-SD be slightly faster than the FloppyEmu, since it is working on the SCSI bus instead of through the floppy port?

 

[Rjp663]

Thank you for all the advice. I’ll need to research my options. 
Merry Christmas 

Rick

 

[ymk]

I am biased since I sell it, but I recommend the MacSD, which can handle hard drive and CD images, and recently, floppy/partition images as well.  You can mount multiple floppies at once and work with them at SCSI speed.  No reconfiguration via USB is required.

Also, changing cards on a Classic can be very easy with some modifications.

 

[cheesestraws]

I am biased since I sell it, but I recommend the MacSD, which can handle hard drive and CD images, and recently, floppy/partition images as well.  You can mount multiple floppies at once and work with them at SCSI speed.  No reconfiguration via USB is required.

Yeah, this sounds like the kind of application that the MacSD would be a good fit for.

 

[karrots]

A LocalTalk <-> Ethertalk bridge is what I use then the Macipgw image running in a VM. I SCP files from my modern computers to/from it and use Appletalk share to pull files to the Classic II

 

[mactjaap]

Thanks for mentioning the MacIP.net solutions. Have a look at https://www.macip.net

Newest is a Raspberry Pi solution. It is equipped with very form of filesharing. Windows, MacOSX, old school Mac, etc. 
Bonus is that can access Internet over LocalTalk. 
The VM solution is most simple but the Rpi is great having around 24x7.