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Formac ProNitron 80.21 Nubus ROM wanted
- Thread starter Bolle
- Start date
Bolle
Well-known member
Oh well, that was an easy one... thanks to @cheesestraws who looked at the corrupted dump and could tell in the blink of an eye that it was bit 4 that was stuck high.
I tried to read the ROM again with different pulldown resistors on the corresponding data pin of the corrupted ROM chip and would actually get a consistent reading from the chip with what looked like non-garbage data.
Calculated the checksum of the dump and it matched, burned a new EPROM and lo and behold the card just sprung to life.
Now that was a quick and fun repair.
I tried to read the ROM again with different pulldown resistors on the corresponding data pin of the corrupted ROM chip and would actually get a consistent reading from the chip with what looked like non-garbage data.
Calculated the checksum of the dump and it matched, burned a new EPROM and lo and behold the card just sprung to life.
Now that was a quick and fun repair.
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demik
Well-known member
Indeed they did a nice job !
Since there is almost no documentation on this card, here is what we found:
- The card output a fixed resolution of 1152x864@ 78 Hz
- Without the ProMem board it's only 8 bpp, with the ProMem memory board, the output is 24 bpp
- It need 32 bit mode to display all colors
- It was sold between 1991 and 1992.
- There was a sister card, the ProNitron 80.19 which had lower specs (supposed 1024x768 ?)
- The card does not have any framebuffer chip. The only speciic chips are the RAMDACs
Classicman
Well-known member
Hi everyone! I'm an italian old mac user (since 1992). Please, I need more information about Formac ProNitron 80.21 (mine have a small sticker with "V24" on a chip and module promem installed).
If possible I need the most updated driver for Mac OS 7.5.5 - 8.1.
With the memory module (promem) installed it can reach 1024x768 at 24 bit full color on a Mac Quadra 950?
Thanks a lot in advance and sorry for my bad english!
If possible I need the most updated driver for Mac OS 7.5.5 - 8.1.
With the memory module (promem) installed it can reach 1024x768 at 24 bit full color on a Mac Quadra 950?
Thanks a lot in advance and sorry for my bad english!
demik
Well-known member
Hello,
There is no drivers for this card as far as we know. The basic drivers are included in the Declaration ROM. The card is fixed resolution, so 1152x864@ 78 Hz for the 80.21 in 24 bits. 1024x768 is the 80.19.
You will probably need a CRT or a (big) MultiSync LCD to get any output
Classicman
Well-known member
Thank you demik!!!
you clarified my doubts but how can I update my ROM if mine is too old?
you clarified my doubts but how can I update my ROM if mine is too old?
Classicman
Well-known member
Classicman
Well-known member
Thank you Bolle!
Can I ask you the model or the brand of your adapter?
During my tests I have removed the "ProMem 80.21" module and I discovered a sticker that on the bottom chip indicates a big "80.19 V 1.6" !
So should it be a ProNitron 80.19 and not an 80.21?
I have make various tests combinations of dip switches with my video adapter Mitsubishi... result no image on my 17" LCD (no signal square on screen). My Mac Quadra load Mac OS but once arrived on the desktop (in the dark of my LCD) it freeze.
Probably like your 80.21 card has bad / corrupted ROM?? The aesthetic appearance is perfect: no broken tracks, no corrosion, no burns...
Can I ask you the model or the brand of your adapter?
During my tests I have removed the "ProMem 80.21" module and I discovered a sticker that on the bottom chip indicates a big "80.19 V 1.6" !
So should it be a ProNitron 80.19 and not an 80.21?
I have make various tests combinations of dip switches with my video adapter Mitsubishi... result no image on my 17" LCD (no signal square on screen). My Mac Quadra load Mac OS but once arrived on the desktop (in the dark of my LCD) it freeze.
Probably like your 80.21 card has bad / corrupted ROM?? The aesthetic appearance is perfect: no broken tracks, no corrosion, no burns...
@Classicman Older cards may have issue with newer OSes, as Apple changed the requirements for the driver (more selectors in control & status). Maybe @Bolle can confirm which version of System/MacOS is working for him with this card?
You might want to try the board with a good multisync monitor capable of supporting the 78 Hz refresh rate (many modern LCDs will top out at 75Hz, and that's if you're lucky, some may not even go that high) and System 7.1. You could probe the sync part of the video output with a logic analyzer if you have one to check what is being output, if anything. I don't see any programmable clock generator near those BT458 and the 52 MHz crystal, so it's unlikely that card could be 'fixed' to output a different refresh rate - and I wonder what's the settings, because the only 1152x864@78 modeline I can find uses a 110 MHz pixel clock.
You might want to try the board with a good multisync monitor capable of supporting the 78 Hz refresh rate (many modern LCDs will top out at 75Hz, and that's if you're lucky, some may not even go that high) and System 7.1. You could probe the sync part of the video output with a logic analyzer if you have one to check what is being output, if anything. I don't see any programmable clock generator near those BT458 and the 52 MHz crystal, so it's unlikely that card could be 'fixed' to output a different refresh rate - and I wonder what's the settings, because the only 1152x864@78 modeline I can find uses a 110 MHz pixel clock.
Bolle
Well-known member
It was 7.1 for me I think. But you should always get at least a splash screen from the card itself before the driver actually takes over.
Have you checked if the card shows up at all with the monitor connected to the onboard video on your Quadra?
Use TattleTech or NewerTech Gauge/SlotInfo for that.
Classicman
Well-known member
Thank you a lot Melkhior and Bolle!
I've tested only with Mac OS 7.5.5. My Quadra, freeze once arrived on the desktop (I think with the dark on my LCD). Because I can't swicth it off with soft power key of keyboard and no any other response from keyboard and mouse.
No splash screen on my LCD but only dark screen with "no signal square".
I'm not a technician and don't have the instrument to test the video output of the card.
I've start the Mac Quadra with the card onto the NuBus slot and the LCD connected to the logic board output. I have checked only with TattleTech and no NuBus card detected... but I noticed that the NuBus card generate a small quantity of warmness.
I read on the web that many old video cards of this type needed to be switched on and to be detected by the Mac thanks to their connected "dedicated" monitor. What do you think? can this be right?
Sorry if I repeat the question, but please tell me which video adapter you used to make the card work (or the correct Mac-vga pinouts to create myself a cable/adapter). I'm pretty sure my Mitsubishi video adapter isn't right for me anyway.
I've tested only with Mac OS 7.5.5. My Quadra, freeze once arrived on the desktop (I think with the dark on my LCD). Because I can't swicth it off with soft power key of keyboard and no any other response from keyboard and mouse.
No splash screen on my LCD but only dark screen with "no signal square".
I'm not a technician and don't have the instrument to test the video output of the card.
I've start the Mac Quadra with the card onto the NuBus slot and the LCD connected to the logic board output. I have checked only with TattleTech and no NuBus card detected... but I noticed that the NuBus card generate a small quantity of warmness.
I read on the web that many old video cards of this type needed to be switched on and to be detected by the Mac thanks to their connected "dedicated" monitor. What do you think? can this be right?
Sorry if I repeat the question, but please tell me which video adapter you used to make the card work (or the correct Mac-vga pinouts to create myself a cable/adapter). I'm pretty sure my Mitsubishi video adapter isn't right for me anyway.
@Classicman Freeze could be as serious as a hardware problem, or as trivial as a too-old ROM wrecking havoc on 7.5.5. Q950 should be able to run 7.1, so if you have some spare disk or partition you could try 7.1 to see what happens.
What I don't get is - if the Mac freezes, how did you start TattleTech ?
The card might turn itself off if it doesn't detect the 'proper' output, but you should still see it as a NuBus device vi TattleTech or similar. And for the adapter, either nothing special (if the card doesn't bother to check and assume a proper display is connected) or some unknown value (if it does try to detect). It *might* be the same as for a two-page display, as the resolution is similar (see https://github.com/sfiera/mactech/blob/master/displays.rst). But it's not identical, so it could be something else... There's also the issue of synchronization; most modern display will only take separate sync (which should be on pin 12 & 15 on the Mac 15-pins, per the previous link) but your video card may only output composite (pin 3) or none and rely on so-called "sync-on-green" (composite sync merged with green on pin 5).
You best bet is System 7.1 with an old-school CRT monitor with Sync-on-Green capability & support for 78+ Hz refresh and 110+ MHz pixel clock. If that doesn't work, the card is likely to have a hardware issue. If that does work, then it's merely a compatibility issue with your current monitor and/or OS.
What I don't get is - if the Mac freezes, how did you start TattleTech ?
The card might turn itself off if it doesn't detect the 'proper' output, but you should still see it as a NuBus device vi TattleTech or similar. And for the adapter, either nothing special (if the card doesn't bother to check and assume a proper display is connected) or some unknown value (if it does try to detect). It *might* be the same as for a two-page display, as the resolution is similar (see https://github.com/sfiera/mactech/blob/master/displays.rst). But it's not identical, so it could be something else... There's also the issue of synchronization; most modern display will only take separate sync (which should be on pin 12 & 15 on the Mac 15-pins, per the previous link) but your video card may only output composite (pin 3) or none and rely on so-called "sync-on-green" (composite sync merged with green on pin 5).
You best bet is System 7.1 with an old-school CRT monitor with Sync-on-Green capability & support for 78+ Hz refresh and 110+ MHz pixel clock. If that doesn't work, the card is likely to have a hardware issue. If that does work, then it's merely a compatibility issue with your current monitor and/or OS.
Classicman
Well-known member
Melkhior you have been extremely thorough and very technical.
My Mac Quadra does not freeze when I connect my LCD to the internal video card (while obviously the ProNitron card is installed in the Nubus slot). As soon as I have time I have to try as suggested by Bolle with Gauge Slot Info to make sure if the card is detected.
But at this point the main problem remains the CRT monitor. It has become difficult to find one compatible with 78+ Hz refresh and 110+ MHz pixel clock!
But I can find the 10 dip switch video adapter so I can set it to Sync-on-Green... can it work?
Thank you all for the precious help!
My Mac Quadra does not freeze when I connect my LCD to the internal video card (while obviously the ProNitron card is installed in the Nubus slot). As soon as I have time I have to try as suggested by Bolle with Gauge Slot Info to make sure if the card is detected.
But at this point the main problem remains the CRT monitor. It has become difficult to find one compatible with 78+ Hz refresh and 110+ MHz pixel clock!
But I can find the 10 dip switch video adapter so I can set it to Sync-on-Green... can it work?
Thank you all for the precious help!
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OK - so the Q950 works with the internal video active and the ProNitron in the NuBus slot but doesn't see the board as a NuBus device with TattleTech? Question; there's no monitor at all on the ProNitron then? 7.5.5 still probably should see the NuBus device. The most basic binaries to show what happens are 'Slots' and 'Slot_look' whose StuffIt archives are in https://staticky.com/mirrors/ftp.ap..._Chest/Devices_-_Hardware/NuBus_Slot_Manager/.
So how exactly does the freeze occurs?Is that when there's a LCD on both video (the Q950 internal + the ProNitron), or with a LCD only on the ProNitron and nothing on the internal video? Also what's your exact model of LCD you're using? You should check its specifications to see if it could use the 78 Hz. If not, then you'll need another monitor to confirm the card works.
Hopefully the card has no hardware problem, but some minor stuff like a partially corrupted ROM or some damaged components for some addresses could cause the NuBus to misbehave and crash the OS.
So how exactly does the freeze occurs?Is that when there's a LCD on both video (the Q950 internal + the ProNitron), or with a LCD only on the ProNitron and nothing on the internal video? Also what's your exact model of LCD you're using? You should check its specifications to see if it could use the 78 Hz. If not, then you'll need another monitor to confirm the card works.
Hopefully the card has no hardware problem, but some minor stuff like a partially corrupted ROM or some damaged components for some addresses could cause the NuBus to misbehave and crash the OS.
Bolle
Well-known member
Just a generic one without switches. It doesn't say a manufacturer or model on it at all. I must have it for more than 20 years now already, so it's an old model from back then.
Classicman
Well-known member
Thanks a lot for the precious utilities. So, my only test (that freezes the Mac) was with a LCD only on the ProNitron and nothing on the internal video. My Philips LCD usually also shows unsupported resolutions even when displayed incorrectly (its maximum is 1280 * 1024), but considering the adhesive "80.19 V1.6" found on the chip under the ProMem video memory expansion, I think that the card supports a lower fixed resolution and that is as stated above demik 1024 * 768 at millions of color.
If I can find the 10 dip switch video adapter so I can set it to Sync-on-Green... can it work and helpme?
If I can find the 10 dip switch video adapter so I can set it to Sync-on-Green... can it work and helpme?
If it outputs a lower resolution and/or refresh rate, it can only help - LCDs tend to have backward support for older standard video modes ; 1024x768@75 Hz should work on most LCDs for instance. The big problems are usually related to non-PC resolution & high refresh rate.
I don't know what the adapter do for sync-on-green, but as it's on the green the signal is always passed through anyway; unless there's some active sync splitting (i.e. filtering the sync out of the green signal and regenerating either composite or split sync) but that's a lot more complex and I don't think any adapter do that - at least not inexpensive ones, you need specialized hardware in there. If you have an adapter with a specific setting for sync-on-green, it's worth a try.
I don't know what the adapter do for sync-on-green, but as it's on the green the signal is always passed through anyway; unless there's some active sync splitting (i.e. filtering the sync out of the green signal and regenerating either composite or split sync) but that's a lot more complex and I don't think any adapter do that - at least not inexpensive ones, you need specialized hardware in there. If you have an adapter with a specific setting for sync-on-green, it's worth a try.
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