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Fizzbinn’s Finds
- Thread starter Fizzbinn
- Start date
Fizzbinn
Well-known member
You're not being unfair, I'm just trying to give some love to the ugly ducklings! After the slick 500 series "Blackbirds" the 190/5300 series does seem like a bit of let down.
Apple designer: "Hey let's go back to a boxy shape, and one color case ...but slightly rounded and with worse plastics!"
Apple engineer: "Great idea, any interest in removing built-in features and a PPC CPU that will be only slightly better for most use cases?"
Apple designer: "We got this! The CD-ROM fad is over right?"
Apple engineer: "Totally, PCMCIA is so much fun to say! Also, let's use a toothpick for the DC power connector!"
Apple marketing: "Guys. This is so awesome that I signed up the movies Mission Impossible and Independence Day to promote our new laptops!"
Apple engineer: "...how important is it that the batteries don't explode?"
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3lectr1cPPC
Well-known member
Yeah that sums it up. Won’t ever stop me from wanting to build the “ultimate-sort-of” 68k PowerBook out of a 190cs and a 5300c that I’d like to call the “190c”. One thing I’m curious about is whether or not the 800x600 5300ce panel can be driven by the 190 logic board. Don’t know if anyone who’s tried it. That would make the only 68k PB with an SVGA screen, which may be enough for some to call it better than the 550c. I’d try it myself if I ever got a 190 (which I’d like to at some point) but as I feel like I’ve mentioned 100 times at this point, I managed to break my 5300ce ribbon cable a while back, still haven’t found a replacement… each one is unique to each panel. And thus, 640x480 it is for me.
3lectr1cPPC
Well-known member
Also you forgot this point:
Apple marketing: actually guys, this CD-ROM thing does seem to be pretty important for the coolness factor of your laptop now, anything you can do about it now engineering or is it too late?
Apple engineering: Funny thing about that… it is sort of too late. Wait, wait, we have an idea. Let’s make a dummy prototype of a mini disk drive that you guys can use in those movies to make the 5300 look good. No plans to actually release one, but hey, the press can’t hurt, right guys?
Fizzbinn
Well-known member
Interesting idea. Looking at the 190 and 5300 series hardware developer notes the LCD controller IC is different, "CSC" vs. "ECSC".
A CSC (color support chip) IC provides the data and control interface to the LCD panel. The CSC IC contains a 256-entry CLUT, RAMDAC, display buffer controller, and flat panel control circuitry.
An ECSC (enhanced color support chip) IC provides the data and control interface to the LCD panel. The ECSC IC is similar to the CSC used in the PowerBook 520 and 540 models [and 190/190cs] except that it can address 1 MB of video RAM [vs. only 512 KB]. The ECSC IC contains a 256-entry CLUT, RAMDAC, display buffer controller, and flat panel control circuitry.
I don't see anywhere that it explicitly says 800x600 is only possible with the ECSC but I also would not be surprised if that was so.
Unique to a particular 800x600 panel model used? I believe it is possible to recreate these. @androda did so for the eMate display ribbon cable. ...but I guess there is likely more interest in the eMate than the 5300ce.
3lectr1cPPC
Well-known member
Yeah for sure… I’ve already talked to androda about it on TD, way too low demand and it’s complicated. The ribbon cable is completely specific to the 5300ce. Nothing standard about it, though the LCD itself will have used some common protocol.
Part number for the LCD is available here: https://macdat.net/extras/powerbooklcdindex.html
Part number for the LCD is available here: https://macdat.net/extras/powerbooklcdindex.html
CC_333
Well-known member
I have a 5300ce that appears to have had it's display downgraded to regular 5300c standards, as it only seems to do 640x480. It's been a few years though, so maybe I'm remembering wrong?
Nevertheless, it was rather disappointing.... I expected it to have the better 800x600 screen!
c
Nevertheless, it was rather disappointing.... I expected it to have the better 800x600 screen!
c
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3lectr1cPPC
Well-known member
Hmm. Possible, if I had left the 5300ce badge on mine it would be the same, but no. 117MHz board aside it would be undeserved
It’s annoying how rare they are. I can get one in terrible shape that’s dead with vinegar syndrome, don’t care, just need that darn cable. But nope, saved eBay search set for months now with not a single one in any condition showing up. Of course I saw several at normal reasonable prices right BEFORE my ribbon cable was damaged, but of course…
It’s annoying how rare they are. I can get one in terrible shape that’s dead with vinegar syndrome, don’t care, just need that darn cable. But nope, saved eBay search set for months now with not a single one in any condition showing up. Of course I saw several at normal reasonable prices right BEFORE my ribbon cable was damaged, but of course…
Fizzbinn
Well-known member
...I think I likely bought one of those a year ago.
...$88 shipped was hard to not "Buy it now" for a 5300ce.I have a bunch of eBay saved searches and I have been able to get at least some of the things I've been looking for through shear multi-year patience. Saying it so it doesn't happen to you, it really burns when you get a hit only to click on it to find someone else just pounced on it before you.
3lectr1cPPC
Well-known member
I only thought of adding a saved search a few months ago back in December I believe so I probably didn’t see that listing at all. It’s all good, I’ll find one someday. I have extra motivation too as the 640x480 panel is going to go into an eventual 190cs that I’d like to get someday.
Saved searches already paid off for me once - snagged an old parts thinkpad I needed and finally got my PS/Note 425 working as a result.
The 5300ce holds a special place in my heart as it was my first real “classic” Mac. I had a PDQ and a couple of clamshells before then, but nothing else pre-g3. I loved that thing despite all its flaws. The waiting game will pay off eventually.
Saved searches already paid off for me once - snagged an old parts thinkpad I needed and finally got my PS/Note 425 working as a result.
The 5300ce holds a special place in my heart as it was my first real “classic” Mac. I had a PDQ and a couple of clamshells before then, but nothing else pre-g3. I loved that thing despite all its flaws. The waiting game will pay off eventually.
Fizzbinn
Well-known member
Ah ha! so you are a 5300 softie too! Keep the faith!
3lectr1cPPC
Well-known member
Yup. 64MB of RAM helps. My 3400 sees more use but I think I just have a general soft spot for objectively mediocre or crappy laptops in general. If you look at the PC laptops I own, besides for my ThinkPad 560 and 385XD, everything I own from the 90s has some major flaw:
- Dell Latitude CPi - major major hinge issues, awful awful plastic quality
- IBM PS/Note 425 - horrific hinge design, bad screen
- WinBook 486SX - overall incredibly mediocre, bad keyboard, meh build quality, meh screen, meh reliability.
I don’t care about any of that though because using laptops like them is fun, and not a lot of people show these systems much love. Not to say I don’t appreciate a well built laptop though. I’ve been on the lookout for a few, like a 5000 series Compaq LTE Elite, a CT series satellite, and a Micron Transport XKE.
And oh boy I’ve written another essay haven’t I. I should really get some sleep
- Dell Latitude CPi - major major hinge issues, awful awful plastic quality
- IBM PS/Note 425 - horrific hinge design, bad screen
- WinBook 486SX - overall incredibly mediocre, bad keyboard, meh build quality, meh screen, meh reliability.
I don’t care about any of that though because using laptops like them is fun, and not a lot of people show these systems much love. Not to say I don’t appreciate a well built laptop though. I’ve been on the lookout for a few, like a 5000 series Compaq LTE Elite, a CT series satellite, and a Micron Transport XKE.
And oh boy I’ve written another essay haven’t I. I should really get some sleep
Fizzbinn
Well-known member
I stumbled across this site with a lot of info about the PB 5300: https://www.alksoft.com/5300_stuff.html
@3lectr1cPPC this page actually has quote on what they were thinking:
...so their CAD software was too slow to make it pretty!
@3lectr1cPPC this page actually has quote on what they were thinking:
""On Blackbird, we learned that certain shapes - such as complex 3D surfaces or four B-splines that meet at a single point - slow the CAD machine down to a crawl," Udagawa notes. "But other features that are visually similar but just slightly different run much faster. So rather than do the hard thing for the sake of doing it, I designed M2 to make the best use of Ken's [sic] Provost's time." [sic] For example, the surfaces to the left and right of the keyboard are analytical curves rather than B-spline - a detail that allows Apple to offer a stretched version of M2 witha full-size CD-ROM drive in a year or two without redesigning the case." [sic] "
...so their CAD software was too slow to make it pretty!
3lectr1cPPC
Well-known member
Wow. That’s… a bit disappointing that they gave up trying because of that. You’d think those shiny new 8100s they would have had would be able to handle it!
