External video out on Powerbook 100 series?

[Replayer74]

Has anyone figured out a hack to get external video out from the logic board of a Powerbook 145? I have a spare parts unit I bought with an LCD that cannot be saved. I used several parts to restore my other PB. But the rest of the guts are in working order. So I would like to do something with them. I have a project in mind, but would need to connect it to another display to accomplish.

If noone has figured this out already (and I am sure that would just be from a lack of interest) any chance of pointing me in the right direction of the video chip and I will start looking into it myself?

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

There's a SCSI device that can get video out, I know it works on the 170 so it should on the 145 as well. I forget what it's called though.

 

[Replayer74]

There's a SCSI device that can get video out, I know it works on the 170 so it should on the 145 as well. I forget what it's called though.

Interesting. I will look around for it. There was a powerbook on ebay that seemed to have an HDMI port hacked into it. I will see if I can find it again.

 

[Phipli]

Interesting. I will look around for it. There was a powerbook on ebay that seemed to have an HDMI port hacked into it. I will see if I can find it again.

The video out port on the slightly newer PBs looks like HDMI but isn't- is that what you are thinking of?

 

[Replayer74]

The video out port on the slightly newer PBs looks like HDMI but isn't- is that what you are thinking of?

It is. I found it again. It was a PB 160. I am really new to the Macs, so forgive me. lol

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

The 2nd gen 100 series PowerBooks have video out ports. And they do confusingly look like HDMI ports, but they aren't. (160, 165, 165c, 180, 180c). The 150 doesn't.

Edit: SCSI video out is called the Radius SCSI Power View. Dug it out of a PowerBook 170 setup thread on the RetroChallenge subforum, it's right near the top. Guy had the dream setup!
Edit 2: found a thread! https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?thr...ird-powerbook-scsi-external-video-card.39510/

 

[avadondragon]

The weird SCSI video out device is called a Radius Powerview. Should probably work with any machine. I have one.

They were also trying to emulate that device's functionality with the PiSCSI at one point. I don't know how far the development got though.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

Ooh, that would be awesome if they could get that thing emulated. Would be sweet to get 256 color video out from my 170!

 

[Replayer74]

Agreed. That would be a great solution to my problem. I am more of a hardware guy than software, so I probably couldn't contribute anything to the PiSCSI project that the team wouldn't already be better at.

As for hardware-wise, it appears that the 145 and the 160 share the same motherboard, so the video chip must be on the CPU daughterboard. At least that gets me a little closer. That also makes sense that the video out port on the 160 is above the other ports.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Apple didn't just have typical TTL video going from a video chip into an LCD driver chip. And even if not, LCD timing signals are not the most complicated so something could be fashioned to convert that to a TTL video output. That is if the pinouts could be determined.

Also the 145 daughter card looks like it must be shared with a 170 with some missing parts. It has the footprint for an FPU, for example. Sounds like your 170 does not have a video out either, though.

I will take a closer look at the daughtercard and see what I can figure out.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

As for hardware-wise, it appears that the 145 and the 160 share the same motherboard

Not exactly correct, this page has a handy comparison tool: https://oldcrap.org/home/the-collection/apple/apple-macintosh-powerbooks-100-series/
I’ve heard they also use different RAM, but my 170 (nearly the same mobo as the 145 - no video out) has an 8MB RAM upgrade marked as being for the 160/180, which is rather confusing. And it works. Hmm.

The 145 motherboard is basically identical to the 140/170, but with a couple minor trace layout changes according to oldcrap. They should be functionally identical though as far as I know.

 

[Replayer74]

I did mean the 170, not the 160. Typing too fast.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

Oh wow, you're actually correct! The 160 does have a different motherboard, but according to the oldcrap.org photos (god that site is such a great resource), the video connector IS on the CPU card!

Apple Macintosh Powerbook 165

Resources Wiki everymac.com Internals Motherboard CPU Board Display Sharp LM64P582 Display and Keyboard Adapter Board Backlight Inverter Board Hard Disk Drive 80MB SCSI Quantum Go-Drive Keyboard Mo…

oldcrap.org

 

[Replayer74]

That points in the right direction. The chips are all apple proprietary so no chance of finding datasheets.

But taking some guesses, U4 and U5 are likely the LCD controller chips and U3 is the actual graphics chip. U4 is likely the LCD driver itself and U5 is likely a format converter and where I would start looking for something that looks like TTL video. It would act like a bridge between the TTL composite-like video and the digital signals the LCD driver would want. (Speaking of the 145 board now)

I am making guesses, but it is based on experiences with other LCDs and assuming Apple is like most companies and don't like re-inventing the wheel every time. So if they put effort into engineering chips, they probably plan to use them in several different models. So starting with TTL video would likely be a smart move. Not to mention that you would want to keep the existing video driver code in the OS/ROM compatible. So you just tack on a LCD converter chipset to the TTL signals. Then you can sell a model with an external video separately and re-use chips.

If there is TTL video, we know we will see a horizontal and vertical clock equal to the typical apple video signals. And a video signal is going to look like what you would expect. That's all you need.

Unfortunately, the chips in the 160 are covered, but wouldn't be shocked if they were pretty much the same parts.

 

[croissantking]

I’ve heard they also use different RAM, but my 170 (nearly the same mobo as the 145 - no video out) has an 8MB RAM upgrade marked as being for the 160/180, which is rather confusing. And it works. Hmm.

Doesn’t the 160/165/180 use the same RAM just with slightly faster timings? It would stand to reason that it would work in a 170, although limited to accessing 8MB total.

I once tried a 4MB module taken from a PB165 in a PB145 that I donated to @Phipli and it worked fine, for 6MB total.

 

[jake18125]

An alternative to the Radius Powerview (which has been partially emulated on the PiSCSI), would be timbuktu - basically screensharing over appletalk. It's pretty neat.

Timbuktu - Macintosh Garden

Timbuktu allowed for remote control and file drop box between Macs. Classic (non-Pro) versions of Timbuktu support AppleTalk only. Download #1: contains disk image of Timbuktu version 3.1.

macintoshgarden.org