Daystar Turbo 601 IIsi adapter...SE/30?

[Von]

Earlier today I won an auction for a Daystar Turbo 601 66mhz and I unfortunately don't have a IIci or supported model or the needed IIsi adapter to run it in my IIsi.

Bolle mentioned in the Trading Post forum:

@Bolle

If there is enough interest I can make some of the IIsi adapters. I started with laying out the board already but did not yet finish it because I don’t even have a IIsi myself.

I would definitely be interested in one of these if a batch were to be made.  That drives a question...if one had the Turbo 601 and the needed IIsi adapter, could that not be run in a SE/30?

I found several posts on the topic of getting the 601 running in SE/30 but it seems that this has not been achieved....

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Here's the teaser Bolle tossed my way in the PM ProtoCache1 MegaThread we had going with joe.

I'm not at all surprised that some cards won't work in either type adapter or only in one type.

In DCaDftMF, Apple says the IIsi PDS slot's identical to the SE/30 slot, but when you get to the fine print they're really not. The signals may be present on the same pins in both machines, but they're used differently. So while most cards are interchangeable within the 16MHz/20MHz bus compatible set, some just may never be.

The SE/30 PDS is the logical 68030 superset extension of the SE PDS model which preceded the IIci's development.

IIci Cache Slot introduced the "Application Specific Interface" an internal expansion card standard lacking any access to the outside world.

 - IIci Cache Slot by Apple's definition is NOT a PDS.

IIsi 030 PDS is a little of this and a little of that, an either/or proposition providing for full size SE/30 PDS card support on Apple's passive PDS Adapter (RA riser cage assy with an SE/SE/30 backplane setup) or NuBus support (an active NuBus/FPU chipset as the RA adapter/riser with NuBus card hardware on the back of the cage assy) offering a reasonable amount of flexibility for expansion.

IIRC, memory handling and bus mastering are the two major stumbling blocks.

edit: Bolle, while you're at it, how about looking at doing a twin PDS slot adapter? :lol:

 

[joethezombie]

I kind of wonder if that very awesome Bolle card would work with the 601.  I've been meaning to give it a go in the IIsi, but haven't gotten around to it as of yet.  The actual 601 adapter uses different equations and signals than the PowerCache adapter. (I decoded the 601 adapter's GAL as well).  Has anyone tried a 601 with a regular PowerCache adapter?

As far as the SE/30,  I was also going to try and see if I could get the 601 running in one, but all things Mac are on hold until I repair the battery damage in my A3000 before it gets worse. I opened her up a bit ago and the green corrosion has spread much quicker than I thought it would, even though I had removed the battery.  The fur is starting to grow on Paula and Denise!

 

[Bolle]

It should work unless the Turbo 601 relies on the onboard 030 to set things up before taking over.

You won’t be able to switch between 601 and 030 mode from the control panel if it works.

Just try, you cant break anything

The GAL on the official T601 adapter only pops /BR and /BG active once /CPUDIS is going active, if i would have to take a guess.

 

[Bolle]

That drives a question...if one had the Turbo 601 and the needed IIsi adapter, could that not be run in a SE/30?

It is supposed to not get any further than the boot chime and crash even before you get anything on the screen.

Daystar had a hell of a time getting the 601 running well in anything but the IIci (and IIsi for that matter as they share the same logicboard at their core)

It will require more than a simple hack to get the 601 to run in GLU(E) based machines, otherwise Daystar would have done it.

One would need to disassemble the ROM of the T601 to patch it so it knows what’s going on in the SE/30. It’s not about connecting the correct signals together and guessing contents of a GAL here unfortunately. 

 

[Von]

Thanks for that explanation on the SE/30.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I'm not so sure DayStar would have done it even they could have. There wouldn't have been much market for 601 in the GLU architecture of the SE/30 or IIcx. The IIci had been firmly entrenched in DTP workflow from first release until well after it was finally discontinued in 1993, halfway thru the Quadra era and a bit more than a year before the NuBus PPCs were released. That would have been a lot of machines for any business to replace outright when core DTP apps began to require PPC code. The 601 made a lot of sense as an upgrade for those processor intensive apps on all but the few high end machines required in a production shop.

I think it's likely they never even tried to achieve compatibility with less than the MDU architecture of the IIci and that the IIsi was very lucky to have been able to tag along for the ride. Then again, maybe they tried just hard enough?

 

[trag]

In all these historical discussions you should remember that a lot of drove the demand for upgrades was the cost of memory (RAM).   It was expensive.  Like $1000/32 MB.   

So, if you had any machine with 128MB of RAM loaded with 30 pin SIMMs, and you would have to switch to 72 pin SIMMs to get the new processor speeds on a new machine, a processor upgrade instead of a new machine might look pretty attractive.

However, I think jt's point still holds, because I suspect that there a lot more IIci's with 128MB of RAM than SE/30s, again, because they were DTP workhorses.    Although, there were some SE/30s with a video card and TPD being used for DTP.   Might have been a bit of demand for upgrades.   Hard to say.

 

[joethezombie]

The GAL on the official T601 adapter only pops /BR and /BG active once /CPUDIS is going active, if i would have to take a guess.

Close...

On the PDS30 side, /BG is floating.  /BR and /BGACK are triggered with /CPUDIS.

On the 601 side, /BR is pulled high and /BG - /BGACK are floating.

Still haven't gotten around to trying your adapter in the IIsi with the 601, but soon!  h34r:

 

[TPope]

Hey Von,

RE:   Daystar Turbo 601 PowerPC Processor Upgrade for 68030 PDS Macs.

You may have seen this before, but it might be helpful.  From Lowendmac:

www.lowendmac.com/2016/daystar-turbo-601-powerpc-processor-upgrade-for-68030-pds-macs/

Let me know how i works out. Peace

TPope

 

[BadGoldEagle]

Wait...

This works???

From the link you just sent:

Some users have managed to get the Turbo 601 working in a Mac SE/30. This requires transplanting Mac IIsi or Mac IIfx ROMs and the Mac IIsi adapter for the Turbo 601 card.

I always thought this combo had already been tested and didn't work?!

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

https://web.archive.org/web/20000417011457/http://www.daystar.com/pages/hardware/upgrades/030.040/Trb040.html

That looks like a comp for a magazine for a vaporware lineup that wound up on DayStar's web site.

 

[omidimo]

Outside of the compatibility factor, on a practical level, power and heat are issues to contend with, but easily mitigated with modern PSU and superior fan. 

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Didn't find the topics @joethezombie has been trying to revive and extend (not even sure they were T601 threads) in a quick search, but I found something FAR more interesting:







https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/gallery/image/487-img-1490/

https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/gallery/image/486-img-1489/

That is NOT the IIsi adapter that's been tested and failed AFAIK. As I understand it joe and co. have been trying to get the Turbo 601 up and running with a standard PowerCache adapter and have failed at every turn. ISTR something about a Cache daughtercard for the back of the T601? Note the much lower position of the "IIci Cache Slot" connector than on the IIsi PowerCache Adapter. Might that relocation create cubic necessary for the cache card?

View attachment 28488

@toples50 Do you still have this adapter in your collection? That GAL/PAL might be the Holy Grail of T601dom?

n.b. not enough caffeine in my system ATM and it's never been something I've paid much attention to, so this morning's WAG might be farther off base than usual. :blink:

edit: how the heck to you link to a pic in the gallery?

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

OOPSIE, it's the Carrera040 that was the problem/major project at hand, not T601:





Time to make coffee again. [:I]

 

[aplmak]

Hey gang I know this is an old thread... I have a Daystar 040 upgrade in my SE/30 as it stands now. I would like to swap it out with the Daystar 601 if possible.. I have the IIsi or IIfx ROM (I forget which one) I have in my SE/30 to make it 32 bit clean. Will the Daystar 040 adapter which is NOT a IIsi angled adapter work for my 601? Again I will just use the previous Daystar 040 adapter with the 601 to raise the 601 up. Does anyone know if this will in fact work??

 

[Bolle]

Won’t work. Only thing you’ll get is the PPC chime and it will hang there.