omidimo
Well-known member
Well, if would great if there was a multi purpose modern case option for 800/840AV/8100/8500 motherboards a la the Amiga 3000 Kickstarter run. Imagine not having to worry about breaking plastic.
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Case Replacement for 8-series PowerMacs Ideas
- Thread starter omidimo
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Unknown_K
Well-known member
There isn't much you can do with spare motherboards and power supplies since they won't fit into an off the shelf case.
For example I snagged a lot of old PPC stuff many years ago from ebay local pickup only from a retired school teacher. He kept a nice G3 Powered PM 7500 with a ton of misc gear but he also gutted an 8600 but kept the motherboard and power supply. Now what exactly can you do with an 8600 MB and PS since they won't fit in anything but a mac 8600/9600 case and finding one of those is pretty difficult. So that board sits on the shelf collecting dust next to its power supply just in case my working 8600 or 9600(s) break.
Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
I'm around 85% sure you can put the 8600 motherboard into a 7000-series case.
Which kind of leads me to believe:
That if this happened, it would or could hypothetically have utility for a lot more than just the 8-series macs. Heck, if you made it oversized, you could do like the 8600 and put a 3-slot board in a case obviously meant for six slots, to be able to put 9500 and 9600 boards in it.
Though, I've also seen that the 9500 is closer to ATX than a lot of the other Macs, so it might not be necessary if, as with clone boards, you can just cram into whatever's convenient to buy at the moment. (I've got a friend with a PowerTower Pro re-housed into an NZXT case, for example.)
Failing that, you could dump the bits in a plastic bin or do a little bit of IKEA hacking (for example), or mount it all on a board like an art project The main concern would be getting card bracket support, especially for the processor cards. You could do that by placing the motherboard horizontally, or you could build or transfer something from an existing system. (There's a few small/mid-sized cabinets I think would make extremely fun replacement PowerMac enclosures, especially with an eye toward power supply modernization and running a big pile of hard disks.)
omidimo
Well-known member
I was thinking of a recreation of the Radius case as it is a tank, and that different drawers could be added for additional board layouts. If one wanted to have a 9x00 in there too, then we are talking a little more DayStar Millennium/Genesis. I think such a thing would need a modified modern PSU to replace the older design for better thermal management. What the Amiga guys have been doing with new cases is pretty smart.
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My thought was basically, bigger 8600/9600 sized case, or full ATX sized case into which you could mount any of those motherboards, and the smaller boards would leave a bit of space at the bottom, which you could do things like "extra drive trays" (which the 8600 case does, for exaple.)
Replacement power supply is also intriguing, especially for anyone who looks at a such a replacement case and goes "yeah, I want three Seagate Elite 23s in there!".
There's no reason that the 9500+ boards have to have something as big as the daystar millennium/genesis, since very few (if any, TBH) of us are going to be re-casing those machines in particular, so we can build it with Apple's own 601/604-e-ev singles and duallies in mind.
The question, I suppose, is whether or not it's worth building two cases at all. If it turns out that, "oh yeah the 9500 is straight ATX, you could just mount one in an NZXT or Fractal enclosure" then it might not be worth building the bigger one.
I'd be interested in hearing how that pans out for the 8-family, because if the same is more or less true there, then maybe what we really need to build is a kit of "8-series-to-ATX-adapter-standoffs" or backplates that match so we can each just choose whatever case suits our needs or budget best. (For example, you absolutely have a point about an 8100 or 8500 being a much smaller machine, physically, than a 9500/9600/Daystar/PTP/S900 et al.
Unless someone has already done this: At some point, I'll pull apart my 840 and 8600 next to each other and see if it looks like they're compatible. The 840 through 8500 is pretty much a slam dunk on that front. (Or: you think the service-source docs would give good enough insight. Those docs reveal you can pretty much pop an 8500 board into an 840 case, so they might have good 8500/8600 comparisons too.)
Replacement power supply is also intriguing, especially for anyone who looks at a such a replacement case and goes "yeah, I want three Seagate Elite 23s in there!".
There's no reason that the 9500+ boards have to have something as big as the daystar millennium/genesis, since very few (if any, TBH) of us are going to be re-casing those machines in particular, so we can build it with Apple's own 601/604-e-ev singles and duallies in mind.
The question, I suppose, is whether or not it's worth building two cases at all. If it turns out that, "oh yeah the 9500 is straight ATX, you could just mount one in an NZXT or Fractal enclosure" then it might not be worth building the bigger one.
I'd be interested in hearing how that pans out for the 8-family, because if the same is more or less true there, then maybe what we really need to build is a kit of "8-series-to-ATX-adapter-standoffs" or backplates that match so we can each just choose whatever case suits our needs or budget best. (For example, you absolutely have a point about an 8100 or 8500 being a much smaller machine, physically, than a 9500/9600/Daystar/PTP/S900 et al.
Unless someone has already done this: At some point, I'll pull apart my 840 and 8600 next to each other and see if it looks like they're compatible. The 840 through 8500 is pretty much a slam dunk on that front. (Or: you think the service-source docs would give good enough insight. Those docs reveal you can pretty much pop an 8500 board into an 840 case, so they might have good 8500/8600 comparisons too.)
Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
I've been playing with a big Dell proprietary "ATX form factor" case. 9500 board's about 1.5" too wide to fit. 8600 board just fits, but they're a bit too deep to be sure about clearing any junk mounted behind the front bezel's frame. Depends on height differentials.
7600/8600 boards fit in the IIcx form factor cases though, gotta adapt a new power supply to fit in the Apple can..
That's intriguing, and good to know, and I kind of suspected, but isn't necessarily a solution, since a lot of the machines in the IIcx/ci/vx/vi/P600/Q700/C-Q650/PM7100 form factor (I'm sure I've missed one) are themselves either uncommon relative to the group of Power Macs that have good boards but bad cases, or are themselves well liked enough to merit not encouraging cutting up their cases en masse.
A good starting point for measuring out or thinking about what people want in a replacement, though.
I'm interested in the idea of a replacement case for these systems, but I don't have the time or the energy to actually be involved with designing one at anything other than a relatively superficial level. Is there another thread for this already where I can jot some ideas down or should I copy or move some of these posts into a better thread, maybe under hacks/dev?
Unknown_K
Well-known member
I think the power button is in different spots on both but if yo want to recase a MB you could just connect a momentary switch from the case directly to the board.
THIS IS THE FIRST POST OF THE NEW THREAD
(everything before this comes from the ebay links thread.)
This came up in the eBay finds thread. I'm going to merge those posts into those threads.
I don't have the time or energy or skill to do this, but the proposal is, essentially:
Replacement case for the Power Macintosh 8000 series and Quadra 800/840.
Given the board commonalities, allowing the 7200+ and 9500/9600 to use this case as well increases its value at the expense, of course, of physical size.
In this thread we should gather thoughts, and perhaps ultimately make a wiki page or a single reference post with an agreed-upon wishlist for the case. To the extent that this could be used as a starting point for someone to build such a case or kickstart one, as with the SE/30 case, there needs to be a good starting point.
(everything before this comes from the ebay links thread.)
This came up in the eBay finds thread. I'm going to merge those posts into those threads.
I don't have the time or energy or skill to do this, but the proposal is, essentially:
Replacement case for the Power Macintosh 8000 series and Quadra 800/840.
Given the board commonalities, allowing the 7200+ and 9500/9600 to use this case as well increases its value at the expense, of course, of physical size.
In this thread we should gather thoughts, and perhaps ultimately make a wiki page or a single reference post with an agreed-upon wishlist for the case. To the extent that this could be used as a starting point for someone to build such a case or kickstart one, as with the SE/30 case, there needs to be a good starting point.
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To add, from a personal and functional perspective: I don't think this should be a re-implementation or re-production of an existing case, such as Radius' 81/ case or the PowerComputing Power 601 series case.
At some point along the way I picked up the idea that it would likely be possible for a single replacement case to accomodate a large number of models, most of which have some kind of need for a replacement enclosure. Most of the members of the 7, 8, and 9 series PowerMacs, along with the Quadras 800 and 840 each need it in varying degrees, but for mostly the same reasons.
Looking super briefly at some pictures on line of a Power Macintosh 8500 motherboard, I think that I may have been fairly wrong in my guesses about how these systems were built. This probably won't surprise anyone else, it's just been literally a decade since I've pulled open my 840 and I've never had an 8100 or 8500. If what I'm seeing is accurate, there is going to be a need for the 800-8500 (and possibly 9500) to have their own case and the 8600-9600 and the rest of the 7000 series to share their own case.
If that's the case, my guess is that given the titling and urgency people show for getting rid of the 8-series case, this thread should continue with that goal in mind.
Depending on the way the boards are built, it might be possible that one case could accommodate both types of boards and systems. I think it would be up to someone with a little more technical skill in conceiving of where everything can go and what would be needed to rebuild a system in such a new case to decide whether that's feasible and what would be needed to do it, given things like different scsi and floppy ribbon cable routing for, say, a 7300 or 8600 board vs an 8100 or 8500 board.
Adding:
Power Macintosh 7600 photos:
https://computers.popcorn.cx/apple/powermac/7600/
Power Macintosh 8500:
https://computers.popcorn.cx/apple/powermac/8500/
Power Macintosh 9600 (8600 is the same, but the board is shorter)
https://computers.popcorn.cx/apple/powermac/9600/
At some point along the way I picked up the idea that it would likely be possible for a single replacement case to accomodate a large number of models, most of which have some kind of need for a replacement enclosure. Most of the members of the 7, 8, and 9 series PowerMacs, along with the Quadras 800 and 840 each need it in varying degrees, but for mostly the same reasons.
Looking super briefly at some pictures on line of a Power Macintosh 8500 motherboard, I think that I may have been fairly wrong in my guesses about how these systems were built. This probably won't surprise anyone else, it's just been literally a decade since I've pulled open my 840 and I've never had an 8100 or 8500. If what I'm seeing is accurate, there is going to be a need for the 800-8500 (and possibly 9500) to have their own case and the 8600-9600 and the rest of the 7000 series to share their own case.
If that's the case, my guess is that given the titling and urgency people show for getting rid of the 8-series case, this thread should continue with that goal in mind.
Depending on the way the boards are built, it might be possible that one case could accommodate both types of boards and systems. I think it would be up to someone with a little more technical skill in conceiving of where everything can go and what would be needed to rebuild a system in such a new case to decide whether that's feasible and what would be needed to do it, given things like different scsi and floppy ribbon cable routing for, say, a 7300 or 8600 board vs an 8100 or 8500 board.
Adding:
Power Macintosh 7600 photos:
https://computers.popcorn.cx/apple/powermac/7600/
Power Macintosh 8500:
https://computers.popcorn.cx/apple/powermac/8500/
Power Macintosh 9600 (8600 is the same, but the board is shorter)
https://computers.popcorn.cx/apple/powermac/9600/
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Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
Today, I'd probably only do that with a busted or marked up case. I've had the Quadra 700 triplets to play around with for a dozen years or so. One will remain forever stock with backup logic boards and a PSU. I wanted to have five total and with I consider the three most worthwhile generations of processors spread across the triplets that used to hold up the shelf surround of my plotter.
Q700
Q700/7100/G3
Q700/7600/G4
It's all in fun, I'd rather build a hot rod than restore an example back to the original when it comes to cars, same deal with computers.
A pile of Ponoco'd acrylic to display/house a logic board would be fun. Cases won't be cheap, but laying something out in AI to house some of my boards might be fun
edit: oopsie, @Cory5412 you split the discussion as I was proofreading.
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So after looking at some photos, it appears that the Power Macintosh 7200/7300/7500/7600 share a motherboard form factor almost exactly with the 840-8500.
The 8600 and 9600 have boards that are very similar, but which re-orient some of the connectors. (At least the 9600's does. I don't have the 8600 out front at the moment or else I'd pop it open and look.)
I'd say that this is largely A Good Thing because it means efforts to build a replacement case can, at worst, target:
This is pretty much all of the systems that have plastics that are known for failing catastrophically and also being super inconvenient to take apart.
Depending, this case might also be able to target. Each of these has some unique needs, and I don't know for sure whether they can all be included in one replacement chassis.
The 8600 and 9600 have boards that are very similar, but which re-orient some of the connectors. (At least the 9600's does. I don't have the 8600 out front at the moment or else I'd pop it open and look.)
I'd say that this is largely A Good Thing because it means efforts to build a replacement case can, at worst, target:
- Quadra 800
- Quadra 840av
- Power Macintosh 7200
- Power Macintosh 7300
- Power Macintosh 7500
- Power Macintosh 7600
- Power Macintosh 8100
- Power Macintosh 8200
- Power Macintosh 8500
This is pretty much all of the systems that have plastics that are known for failing catastrophically and also being super inconvenient to take apart.
Depending, this case might also be able to target. Each of these has some unique needs, and I don't know for sure whether they can all be included in one replacement chassis.
- Power Macintosh G3 (Beige) (Looks to be same shape and size as 7000/8000, but connectors are perpendicular to rather than parallel to the board.)
- Power Macintosh 8600 (I suspect the same is true of the 8600 as is true of the beige)
- Power Macintosh 9600 (really tall and also the connector orientation difference.)
- Power Macintosh 9500 (Haven't seen pictures yet, I suspect it shares connector orientation with the 7x00 and 800-8500, but is a much larger board.)
Yeah, it's absolutely not something I'd have the money to back right now, even though I have an 840 and a 7300 and a beige G3 desktop that I think getting replacement cases for would be great and fun.
Thinking about different options and considering what all features the community needs and what can be eliminated to save cost is important. If a pre-fabbed mounting plate to run a Mac motherboard in a stock ATX case is possible, that might be the most economical option and we can just let people choose what kind of ATX case they want.
Another example of something that might be avoidable complexity is the physical power switch. What's the need for people rebuilding these systems to run them without a keyboard? Are there literally any ADB keyboards that don't have power buttons that work on these systems? COuld we save time and money by excluding it or making it a part people can print or build on their own later if they want?
And, there's also the fact that this is a really big group of systems, logically speaking. Is it going to be a problem for 7000-series owners to have a minitower on the other side of this conversion? Should two seprate enclosures be planned or something convertible in the vein of a Compaq DeskPro?
These motherboards also mostly have a lot of potential that's more or less impossible to use with the original power supply and cases. Is it important to build something where making more full use of the dual onboard SCSI buses some of these have? Is there anyone interested in dropping a 7500 board into a case that'll run dual 5.25-inch full height drives? That kind of thing is of course not why anyone bought a 7000 series when they were new, but.
Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
820-0752-A (8?00) might as well be the same board as 820-0563-B (9500) in terms of exact placement of exactly the same connectors on the two business sides of the boards. Lack of DA15 video connector, three additional slots and miscellaneous connector placements on the 9500 are the only major differences
Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
Mounting a board with standoffs isn't that much of a headache, drilling out the standard placement AT/Baby AT/ATX standoffs is the problem the way I see it. Hole placement patterns in printable PDF for the different Mac boards to line up with the drilled out ATX standoffs would probably suffice. Not sure you could use a plate in between anyway?
Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
NewEgg pestered me with with an email again today, but it's all good. I may have found a case that that will work for mounting a board the size of my 9500's.
It's that seventh expansion slot you see that (probably) will make the difference in case width for fitting a six slot Mac board.
It's a little gamish, but the window won't matter. Give it a coat of Platinum and it'll look like a Radius 81/110 updated from round holes to rectangular holes for the PCI Clone they never released. Having the modern connectors atop the front bezel makes them less intrusive. Again it's the the extra width a seventh slot affords for installing a big Mac board.
https://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/ProductImageCompressAll1280/11-147-312-V11.jpg
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811147312?Item=N82E16811147312&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=IGNEFL121019&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL121019-_-EMC-121019-Index-_-ComputerCases-_-11147312-S1A2B
It's that seventh expansion slot you see that (probably) will make the difference in case width for fitting a six slot Mac board.
It's a little gamish, but the window won't matter. Give it a coat of Platinum and it'll look like a Radius 81/110 updated from round holes to rectangular holes for the PCI Clone they never released. Having the modern connectors atop the front bezel makes them less intrusive. Again it's the the extra width a seventh slot affords for installing a big Mac board.
https://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/ProductImageCompressAll1280/11-147-312-V11.jpg
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811147312?Item=N82E16811147312&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=IGNEFL121019&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL121019-_-EMC-121019-Index-_-ComputerCases-_-11147312-S1A2B
Trash80toHP_Mini
NIGHT STALKER
OK, I found it!
Clear acrylic erector set, shipped from China for $81.73!
It's a sharp cornered "solid" Plexi Box, but it looks like the panels can be back painted whatever you like without anything but screw heads to give it away. You could do Faux White lines and all. Seven slots worth of room for 9x00 boards and some interesting possibilities from the likes of Ponoco.
- custom laser cut back panel replacement for NuBus slotted boards?
- custom laser cut front panel for whatever you like, definitely not fans. :
- router cut front/sides/back/top/whatever with real router cut Snow White grooves?
Dunno, but it's a great starter kit of clear tinker-toys for Macintosh II thru 9500. I'm thinking TOWERfx, but I'm a bit loonier than usual tonight. :blink:
Clear acrylic erector set, shipped from China for $81.73!
It's a sharp cornered "solid" Plexi Box, but it looks like the panels can be back painted whatever you like without anything but screw heads to give it away. You could do Faux White lines and all. Seven slots worth of room for 9x00 boards and some interesting possibilities from the likes of Ponoco.
- custom laser cut back panel replacement for NuBus slotted boards?
- custom laser cut front panel for whatever you like, definitely not fans. :
- router cut front/sides/back/top/whatever with real router cut Snow White grooves?
Dunno, but it's a great starter kit of clear tinker-toys for Macintosh II thru 9500. I'm thinking TOWERfx, but I'm a bit loonier than usual tonight. :blink:
