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Can anyone identify this (apple?) nubus+pds videocard?

swami

Member
I cannot find the right keywords to search for this card and nothing I have tried comes up with as much as a hint of what make and type this card is. It's a videocard that came with an Apple Quadra 700. It has both a PDS and a NuBus slot and I think it has 2MB vram. The large chips on the board are Apple copyrighted. But the silk screening and even the board color are nothing like Apple usually does/did in that era (it's a less vibrant slightly blueish-green color). There are also no typical Apple serial numbers or product numbers on it... Does anyone know this card or can you give me a hint how I can identify this card (some software tool?). Thanks!

0_Apple_card_1.jpg
0_Apple_card_2.jpg
 
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Phipli

Well-known member
This... is not a commercial product I don't think, unless there is an apple video card I've failed to notice for 30 years.

I'm willing to bet it is very fast and I think the Nubus is mostly for support, not data.

@Bolle

EDIT - I suspect it is just a frame buffer but straight into the PDS, so it is basically 2MB Quadra graphics on a card. An interesting card :)
 
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Phipli

Well-known member
Does anyone know this card or can you give me a hint how I can identify this card (some software tool?)
There is a program called 'TattleTech'


It will tell you what the card calls itself.
 

lobust

Well-known member
Although there's no matching shipped product that I know of, that card looks very rasterops-y. I have a Paintboard Lightning and there some very obvious design similarities.

PCB is the same shade.
Silkscreen font looks the same.
Many of the components are from the same manufacturer.
Some of the passives around the output connector appear to share the same physical layout.
It has the same grid pattern ground plane around the edges of the board.
Most tellingly, the ROM P/N shares the same format - mine is 2685 0002-2613, and looks to be printed the same.

Edit, also on the back of my card, the PCB P/N is of the same format as OP's card. Mine is 0002-0546-XD

5E044677-11D5-4B9E-9AD1-9CEDD642D072.jpeg
 
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Phipli

Well-known member
Although there's no matching shipped product that I know of, that card looks very rasterops-y. I have a Paintboard Lightning and there some very obvious design similarities.

PCB is the same shade.
Silkscreen font looks the same.
Many of the components are from the same manufacturer.
Some of the passives around the output connector appear to share the same physical layout.
It has the same grid pattern ground plane around the edges of the board.
Most tellingly, the ROM P/N shares the same format - mine is 2685 0002-2613, and looks to be printed the same.

Edit, also on the back of my card, the PCB P/N is of the same format as OP's card. Mine is 0002-0546-XD

View attachment 51545
Other than the ROM number similarity I'm not sure I agree they're similar, I'd say they're extremely different. Having the same brand VRAM is fairly common between boards.
 

Melkhior

Well-known member
I'm willing to bet it is very fast and I think the Nubus is mostly for support, not data
Indeed. Hard to see anything on the front side but not much seems connected and those bussed signals are in the way. On the back side only the +12V is visibly connected. I concur that the NuBus connector is only there for mechanical support and/or power supply.
 

lobust

Well-known member
Other than the ROM number similarity I'm not sure I agree they're similar, I'd say they're extremely different. Having the same brand VRAM is fairly common between boards.
Well, yes, they are very definitely extremely different cards! But the similarities are significant IMO. More than just the VRAM, resistor packs are all BI on both boards, whatever that little PLCC20 chip is has the same type of sticker on both boards, same kind of smaller bar code sticker, A7 on mine vs AA on OP's...

None of it proof, but reasonable evidence if you ask me!
 

Phipli

Well-known member
Well, yes, they are very definitely extremely different cards! But the similarities are significant IMO. More than just the VRAM, resistor packs are all BI on both boards, whatever that little PLCC20 chip is has the same type of sticker on both boards, same kind of smaller bar code sticker, A7 on mine vs AA on OP's...

None of it proof, but reasonable evidence if you ask me!
Apple used the same barcode, the copyright text is different, the chip IDs are formatted differently, boards aren't the same colour, most parts have apple part numbers, suggesting they bought them (weird for a prototype made by Raster Ops).

I'm just saying I wouldn't just look for similarities.

The cards that Radius made for Apple still said Radius on them!
 

swami

Member
There are definitely similarities, and some differences. This weekend I will fire up the quadra 700 and see if Tattletech can give us any information.
Question remains indeed: why does Rasterops (or any developer) use Apple copyrighted chips? I don't recall seeing third party developers use apple designed/branded chips in production boards. Not that me not seeing them is any evidence, of course.
 

beachycove

Well-known member
A close-up pic of the black connector would be useful. Is it an 040 PDS?

I have a vague recollection that there was a card (PPC accelerator, maybe?) for the IIfx that used both the PDS and a Nubus slot, but I don’t recall that combo being available for any other model. Mind you, I just went looking in my go-to reference for such things, Upgrading and Repairing Macs, but could not find any mention of the IIfx card in question, so maybe I dreamt it.
 

lobust

Well-known member
Apple used the same barcode, the copyright text is different, the chip IDs are formatted differently, boards aren't the same colour, most parts have apple part numbers, suggesting they bought them (weird for a prototype made by Raster Ops).

I'm just saying I wouldn't just look for similarities.

The cards that Radius made for Apple still said Radius on them!

I think the colours are very close, I know mine looks darker/glossier in my photo, but it's pretty dark in here as I took the photo, and it's quite a dull/matte green in reality. I'm not dismissing what you're saying, but I think the similarities are too much to be coincidental. I do have a bunch of other cards here and none of the others have the same similarities at all.

There are definitely similarities, and some differences. This weekend I will fire up the quadra 700 and see if Tattletech can give us any information.
Question remains indeed: why does Rasterops (or any developer) use Apple copyrighted chips? I don't recall seeing third party developers use apple designed/branded chips in production boards. Not that me not seeing them is any evidence, of course.

It's very possible (this is pure speculation of course) that it was a collaboration or a prototype of a card developed for Apple by either RasterOps or someone else. I would not be at all surprised to discover those Apple ASICS are "borrowed" from an existing Apple product.

A close-up pic of the black connector would be useful. Is it an 040 PDS?

I have a vague recollection that there was a card (PPC accelerator, maybe?) for the IIfx that used both the PDS and a Nubus slot, but I don’t recall that combo being available for any other model. Mind you, I just went looking in my go-to reference for such things, Upgrading and Repairing Macs, but could not find any mention of the IIfx card in question, so maybe I dreamt it.

It's definitely an 040 PDS, also OP stated that it came out of a Q700. Speaking of which, any unusual software or drivers on there OP?
 

ArmorAlley

Well-known member
What would be the benefit of using both buses simultaneously?
The PDS-bus is faster and has higher bandwidth than the NuBus bus.
Could it be that the card is doing two things simultaneously and making use of both buses for that purpose, say processing video and outputting it at the same time?
 

Phipli

Well-known member
What would be the benefit of using both buses simultaneously?
The PDS-bus is faster and has higher bandwidth than the NuBus bus.
Could it be that the card is doing two things simultaneously and making use of both buses for that purpose, say processing video and outputting it at the same time?
It probably doesn't - the Nubus connectors data pins don't look to be connected. It's a PDS frame buffer card.
 
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swami

Member
To my best of knowledge no PPC accelerators were ever made for '030 macs, only 040 accelerators for 030 macs.
The IIfx has a different kind of pds, it looks like a regular NuBus connector (different size though).

The quadra was stored without the drive and I can't find a drive labeled for this Quadra in the big box where I store all the drives... - if it came with a drive to begin with, which I don't remember anymore. My collection grew a little too big, that's why I'm sifting through all my stuff to make room. :eek:
 

Phipli

Well-known member
To my best of knowledge no PPC accelerators were ever made for '030 macs, only 040 accelerators for 030 macs.
Daystar made a Turbo 601 PPC for 030 PDS slots like the IIci. 66MHz and 100MHz versions. It was also available as an Apple branded variant.
 

jeremywork

Well-known member
I would bet that’s the RasterOps 24MxQ. I’ve spent some time searching for evidence of its existence, but wasn’t even able to find pictures. I wouldn’t have expected a Nubus connector, but it could be there for physical stability.

Really a rare thing, and probably quite fast. Still, free to pm me if you’d like to sell 🙃
 
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