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’03 MDD 1.25GHz SP FW400 - No load or boot of OS 9

MBongo

Active member
And no - it is not an MDD FW800 model.
(Nor does it have a FW800 mobo.)

Have tried various “solutions” with this machine located inside the Russian Federation. And with current international sanctions in place, can’t send “things” (discs, drives, video cards etc.) to the machine’s owner.

The machine loads and boots many versions of OS X successfully - but when it comes to all attempts at installing OS 9.2 on separate partition - reboots then yield gray screen freezes (even via attempted drag & drop installations).

Think you might know the cause of this or have “the fix” / or enjoy a challenge?
… respond here or over on MacOS9Lives.com please.

Thought perhaps someone here might have encountered / remedied this before?

Again, not a FW800 MDD.

For more background info - the sad story begins (over there) a month ago:
@ http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=6335

Графика-2.png
 

MOS8_030

Well-known member
Based on the serial number I believe this model will only run OS9 in the "classic" environment. i.e within OSX. (Tiger)

This is the "rereleased" G4 version that Apple sold for a while after people complained about dropping OS9 support.
 

MBongo

Active member
From 512pixels.net... https://512pixels.net/2016/11/lazarus-mac-mdd-g4/

“It came in two CPU configurations, single or dual 1.25 GHz; with 256 MB of DDR RAM and a 12X Combo Drive. Hard disk capacity started at 80 GBs; with Mac OS X 10.2 Jaguar preinstalled.
But what made the Power Macintosh G4 (MDD 2003) special wasn’t its specs, rather the fact it could boot into Mac OS 9.
That’s becuase the Power Macintosh G4 (MDD 2003) wasn’t a new computer. It was a year old design Apple brought back from the dead.
It was reanimated to appease desktop publishing professionals who could not yet make the transition to Mac OS X. Their excuse, QuarkXPress.”


I’ve the exact same mobo as his in one of my 2003 MDDs AND there's no problem running OS 9.2 native.

Questioned whether or not his might have been an “education model” but I thought that those
were all of the FW800 variety?

Ran his serial number and got this back…

Vitaly.png
 

MOS8_030

Well-known member

MBongo

Active member
If you read down through those specs for that serial number from EveryMac, there’s this:

EveryMac.png

While his board is identical to one that I have, his Boot Rom version & firmware are also the same as mine. Only difference is that mine is a 1.25 DP - whereas his is an SP.

AND yes, have also tried the Universal Installer from MacOS9Lives (and Macintosh Garden too) and also the Rescue & Install Disc approach… from MacOS9Lives. All no-go.

The re-released MDD was in answer to those that had previously had OS 9 bootable machines that could not use the FW800 MDD models (which were 1.0, 1.25 and 1.42 GHz machines). So Apple rolled out the OS 9 bootable, firewire 400 machines again.

Now, where this can all get really confusing is that only one of my MDDs has the EMC 1914C and all of the others are just EMC 1914. (This also includes - believe it or not, MDD FW800 models.)

And really, we’ve all but given up completely on getting his machine to install OS 9.2 and boot from it…
but there are two other possibilities:

(1). Download, burn and attempt to install the LAST revision of the 2003 MDD Restore set:

(2). Mac OS 9.2.2 For Previously Unsupported G4s (G4s that shipped OS X Boot Only)

Thanks for the responses!(y)
 

jeremywork

Well-known member
If memory serves, the very last OS 9 compatible G4s will only run from the "OS 9 General" installation (probably similar to what's on the MDD 2003 restore set.)


The "Mac OS 9.2.2 For Previously Unsupported G4s" image should also work, but isn't required except on FW800 models.
 

Johnnya101

Well-known member
Wasn't there some sort of issue installing OS 9 if you already had OS X installed, or was it the other way around? OS 9 required special drivers, but I can't remember if you can install it after installing OS X.

Is there a separate drive available to try a clean install?
 

MBongo

Active member
Misread? (I do that all the time.)😉

Still, appreciate all efforts/input here.
Someone might come up with something we have not yet tried.

Major stumbling block with this little adventure is that none of the downloaded and burned OS 9 installer discs will boot this MDD. And the optical drive has been swapped out to no avail. All Apple hardware checks (AHT, etc.) report no problems. And he can install 10.2, 10.3, 10.4 and 10.5 / all the live-long-day.

Now wonder if Apple DID produce a FW400 MDD Education Model that simply would not allow 9.2 ??? I can see no EMC number silkscreened on the back or on the printed label of this machine - only the M8570 model number… and there is no FW800 port.

The "Mac OS 9.2.2 For Previously Unsupported G4s”… will be a last-ditch attempt here. And I have suggested download and burn of the first (DVD) from the MDD 2003 Restore Set to test if that will boot, before download and burn of the remaining CDs of that set.

And yes I did once have the inverse problem occur when I had wiped the drive completely and installed OS 9.2 first in an MDD here and then - could not get OS X (Tiger) installed successfully afterwards. Eventually a very good friend sent me a drive with 9 & X pre-installed to get me out of that seemingly endless loop of failed attempts. I would now very gladly send a similar drive to this MDD owner… but current international sanctions prevent this.

Later (with my inverse problem) I adopted the “best practice here” of installing Jaguar (on a 2nd partition) from a retail Apple installer… formatting and partitioning the drive AND then installing 9.2 on the 1st partition. This has also been attempted in this case, but no success.

The only other machine available in this case “there” - is some iMac running Monterey / so no install via firewire target disk option. AND no external firewire drive is available either. Creation of a bootable USB stick has also been attempted.

AND drag & drop install from the Mac OS 9.2.2 General Image also results in a gray screen freeze upon attempted reboot.

Yes, it’s indeed a puzzle. And big thanks again to all that lend their grey matter here!
 

jeremywork

Well-known member
Major stumbling block with this little adventure is that none of the downloaded and burned OS 9 installer discs will boot this MDD.
As far as I know all of the FW400 boards should be capable. This lends credence to the non-standard firmware theory. Has a CPU upgrade (especially a faster one, 1.7GHz+) been installed in the past? Some of those require aftermarket firmware which needs nvram patches active for OS 9 and/or OS X boot support. I'd guess this would change the Boot ROM Version in OS X system profiler, and that those patches wouldn't be necessary after the OEM CPU was reinstalled, but I don't have one to confirm.

AND drag & drop install from the Mac OS 9.2.2 General Image also results in a gray screen freeze upon attempted reboot.
Another check: on OS 9 bootable machines running 10.4, 'OS 9 Drivers' will appear in the Partition tab of Disk Utility.
(if not checked the disk will not be able to support an OS 9 system folder even if the machine can boot from OS 9. ...that shouldn't impact booting from a CD, though.) On OS-X-only systems the feature will be missing.
Picture 5.pngPicture 1.png

Also, do the burned OS 9 CDs appear in the option-boot menu?
 

MBongo

Active member
Thanks jeremywork!

"As far as I know all of the FW400 boards should be capable. This lends credence to the non-standard firmware theory. Has a CPU upgrade (especially a faster one, 1.7GHz+) been installed in the past? Some of those require aftermarket firmware which needs nvram patches active for OS 9 and/or OS X boot support. I'd guess this would change the Boot ROM Version in OS X system profiler, and that those patches wouldn't be necessary after the OEM CPU was reinstalled, but I don't have one to confirm."

A past CPU Upgrade? Unknown if so. And while I have never installed one here in an MDD - I do have a Sonnet upgrade in a Quicksilver that does allow a seamless transition back to an original QS CPU without any problem or changes to firmware in order to function, which perhaps stands to reason as the original must be in place to install the necessary patches for the upgrade. AND his Boot ROM version reports same as MDDs here that have never been CPU upgraded.

"Another check: on OS 9 bootable machines running 10.4, 'OS 9 Drivers' will appear in the Partition tab of Disk Utility."

Yes, the Install OS 9 Drivers checkbox does appear in his Disk Utility and he has done so for numerous reformats before a myriad of attempted OS 9 installs.

"Also, do the burned OS 9 CDs appear in the option-boot menu?"


No Title.png

Yes, but many times without titles. I continue to question the viability of his file downloads via a Monterey-based iMac - but perhaps I’m being “OS superstitious”? Yesterday it was suggested that he run debug on one of his installer CDs and the results were that he was finally capable of getting further into the actual OS 9.2 boot process than ever before. Only, to be confronted with the following…

Графика-9.png Графика-10.png

I've suggested that instead of booting with extensions off, he might remove / move “all but the essential” OS 9 extensions to the disabled extensions file folder in his OS 9 partition (via OS X) and then attempt an OS 9 boot. But with the time differences between our locations, it often takes a day to hear back from him.

So that’s where this all is, now.

He has provided a nine minute video of the entire debug process that can be made available to anyone wanting to review it.
Message me and I can provide a link.;)
 

ried

Well-known member
I would second the previous CPU upgrade theory. Ensure that any previously applied firmware patches have been removed by burning and booting (in programming mode) from this bootable CD disc image:

https://x704.net/bbs/download/file.php?id=94

After removing all patches and subsequently rebooting, shut it down and boot from the CD in programming mode again, then choose "Enable booting with Mac OS 9" and reboot. Should be good to go.
 

MBongo

Active member
Thanks reid, have passed along your idea. MDD owner is out of town away from machine for holiday and efforts shall be renewed, likely on the 4th.
 

Thazen33

New member
Was just successful on an 03 FW 400 SP1.25. Download the iso from the garden. Action retro mdd video series has a link to the right version, which is important. Write iso to a usb using etcher. Load the newly created usb drive holding option during restart and follow the directions in the read me that opens. Took about 30 mins.
 
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