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X11 in Professional MachTen

LarBob

Well-known member
Does anyone have X11 working in Professional MachTen (2.3)? You're supposed to be able to launch it from within `wind` by pressing Command+T but for me everything but the menu bar turns white and then the X server just exits with no messages or logs.

 

LarBob

Well-known member
I've had Professional MachTen X11 work on loaded IICX and IICIs with 128 MB of ram.  I *think* eXodus will run with more constrained memory (8-10 MB) and you get X11R6 instead of the X11R5.  Are you trying to build X11 applications in MachTen or just to export another display to your Mac?
Just trying to run the included X11R6 or X11R5 on the Mac. Before trying to do anything too heavy with MachTen I'm going to get some more RAM for this thing anyway (or use my Quadra 610 when I can get to it next).

 

LarBob

Well-known member
Hm, so I got my Quadra 610 (68 MB of RAM) and tried on it and the same thing happens. Weird.

 

MrFahrenheit

Well-known member
Doesn’t MachTen require an FPU?  Check your 610 to see if it’s a 68040, or if it’s like mine and is a 68LC040. 

 

LarBob

Well-known member
Doesn’t MachTen require an FPU?  Check your 610 to see if it’s a 68040, or if it’s like mine and is a 68LC040. 
I believe it'll do FPU emulation if you don't have one but I have upgraded it to a full 68040. The system is working fine besides the X server.

 
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Hm, so I got my Quadra 610 (68 MB of RAM) and tried on it and the same thing happens. Weird.
I would try setting the color depth to 8-bit (especially if you are on X11R5 in Pro MachTen) and use xtmenu -s to start the X server. Command+T should work normally though. Are you using the onboard graphics or a separate card?

 

LarBob

Well-known member
I would try setting the color depth to 8-bit (especially if you are on X11R5 in Pro MachTen) and use xtmenu -s to start the X server. Command+T should work normally though. Are you using the onboard graphics or a separate card?
Even 4-bit color didn't help. It's the internal graphics on a Quadra 610 and an SE/30.

 
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Even 4-bit color didn't help. It's the internal graphics on a Quadra 610 and an SE/30.
Sorry for the delay in responding while the forum was down.

The amount of ram you have and the internal graphics at 8 bits or less should be okay.  You might have to change the window menu selection from Terminal 1 to X Server, but you should normally see an old SunOS style olwm desktop with a terminal open after running xtmenu -s.

After the screen goes white, can you go back to the Terminal 1 view from the Window menu?  It would be good to check /var/adm/X0msgs and /var/adm/startXmsgs as well as to see if xinit/xinitrc are still running processes.

The FAQ mentions that on a machine without networking enabled you could get a blank white screen, but the text seems geared towards the PowerPC version based on the folders mentioned for extensions.  I have always installled MachTen after being online; when I tried to manually disable networking and load X on MachTen 2.3 on Mac OS 7.5.3 the display still worked.

Here's the FAQ note from http://www.tenon.com/support/MachTen/MachTen_FAQ.html#The_X_Window_System_-_19 in case there's a detail that helps you troubleshoot:

X won't start on my system. It just goes to a white screen then drops me back into the finder (or hangs the system) How do I fix this?

The two most likely possibilities are not enough memory or lack of networking. If you are running only the MacOS and MachTen, set memory for at least 32 MB. X will also fail to start if MachTen is configured to use OpenTransport networking and there is no network active (e.g. PPP not connected). Simply quit MachTen and open the folder /System Folder/Extensions/Tenon Kernel Libraries. Inside this folder resides OTSocketLib--move this to the folder /System Folder/Extensions/Tenon Kernel Libraries/Disabled. Now in the folder /System Folder/Extensions/Tenon Kernel Libraries/Disabled is a file called SocketLib--move this file to the folder /System Folder/Extensions/Tenon Kernel Libraries, reboot your computer and try X again.

If you want to use MachTen without being connected to a network, please read and follow the instructions in our loopback paper.


The loopback paper is incorrectly linked on the FAQ and actually at http://www.tenon.com/support/MachTen/papers/loopback.shtml.

 

LarBob

Well-known member
2PUY8ZB.png

 

X11R6 server running on 10 MB of RAM!

 
Had time to poke at this again. I installed 7.5.3, OpenTransport 1.1.2, and MachTen 2.3 and X is working on the 610.

I'm wondering if it didn't work because it seems maybe an update was needed to work on 7.5.5 (http://ftp.tenon.com/pub/updates/2.3/X11-755.tgz); have you tested X on 7.5.5?

It seems that update hasn't been archived anywhere.


Glad you got it working on 7.5.3, looks really cool on a classic!

I've been looking for a copy or at least a file listing of the ftp for awhile to try to find what ported apps were available on Power MachTen.  There was no accompanying software cd with my copy and I don't think they were putting one out by the 4.1 series (instead people were told to go to the ftp site).

I had not tested X on 7.5.5 and 7.6.  I was able to boot into the text console on 7.6 in the past with the vmunix.mt2.4.hqx patch from http://www.tenon.com/support/files/MachTen/Updates/vmunix.mt2.4.hqx.

I seem to recall that I also had to change the finder offset in the Professional MachTen General Control Panel from 0 to 1876 or 1900.  You had to hold down option when clicking General in the Control Panel to see the offset.  Regardless of the offset, when you booted it could bring down the finder so you were stuck in MachTen till rebooting.  I'll try to test the a few variations for MachTen 2.3 on Mac OS 7.5.5 and 7.6.

 

LarBob

Well-known member
Glad you got it working on 7.5.3, looks really cool on a classic!

I've been looking for a copy or at least a file listing of the ftp for awhile to try to find what ported apps were available on Power MachTen.  There was no accompanying software cd with my copy and I don't think they were putting one out by the 4.1 series (instead people were told to go to the ftp site).

I had not tested X on 7.5.5 and 7.6.  I was able to boot into the text console on 7.6 in the past with the vmunix.mt2.4.hqx patch from http://www.tenon.com/support/files/MachTen/Updates/vmunix.mt2.4.hqx.

I seem to recall that I also had to change the finder offset in the Professional MachTen General Control Panel from 0 to 1876 or 1900.  You had to hold down option when clicking General in the Control Panel to see the offset.  Regardless of the offset, when you booted it could bring down the finder so you were stuck in MachTen till rebooting.  I'll try to test the a few variations for MachTen 2.3 on Mac OS 7.5.5 and 7.6.
Indeed, I've had it working fine on 8 even, just not X.

 
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