Jackhammer SCSI card pausing during boot

[olePigeon]

So I got a FWB Jackhammer SCSI card the other day. The seller said it was causing crashes and I was hoping it was just an extension or hardware conflict. Unfortunately it wasn't. I was hoping I could get some help troubleshooting. It may be a hardware issue, but maybe someone knows a good place to start poking around.

In about 1 in 20 reboots, it works fine. Very rarely it'll cause an Unimplemented Trap error right when the Welcome to Macintosh comes up. I had read that that particular error sometimes happens if the HDD driver wasn't FWB. I've since updated the HDD driver to FWB and I haven't seen the Unimplemented Trap error since. So I'm hoping that was solved.

OK, so now for the weird part. The computer seems to pause at the gray screen when it boots, before it gets to the Happy Mac. This is after the RAM check, so it's not that. After what seems like a long time (maybe 5 or 6 minutes?,) it'll finally Happy mac and then get to the Welcome to Macintosh and load 2 or 3 extensions, then pause again for another 5 or 6 minutes. After that, it continues to load 3 or 4 more extensions, then pauses for a long time again. So after that 3rd pause, it'll finally get to the desktop and seems to work fine.

Any ideas?

[spiceyokooko]

It's hard to know where to start because you've given so little information. What machine's it running in? What OS are you running? What's connected to the Jackhammer board? What driver versions are you using? What version of FWB Toolkit are you using? What other extensions are loading? What sequence are they loading in?

You've said it could be a hardware or extension conflict, then said it isn't. How do you know it isn't? What have you done to convince yourself of this?

[olePigeon]

Oops, sorry. It is a stock Macintosh IIci with 128MBs of RAM.

It pauses with or without extensions on.

I'm running version 1.8 of Hard Disk Tool Kit and version 3.4 of JackHammer SCSI software.

There are no devices attached to the card.

What I meant by hardware conflict is any other cards other than the Jackhammer. I removed all my 3rd party cards and upgrades and only had the Jackhammer card installed.

[spiceyokooko]

I don't know what OS you're running but have you tried it with 7.5+? HDT 1.8 will load a SCSI Manager 4.3 compliant driver and the Jackhammer should be compatible with that, but I'm not sure the 030 machines support SCSI Manager 4.3.

I would certainly try it with 7.5 or 7.6.

[olePigeon]

That's what I'm running. 7.5.3 and HDT 1.8.

[olePigeon]

After Googling and finding nothing on the card, I rummaged through my stack of manuals and found the manual for the card. It has troubleshooting section, but nothing that applies to my problem. However, it does have a bit on forcing a firmware update. I'm going to give that a try. Maybe the firmware got corrupted somehow. I'll post again if it fixes it (kinda late right now, I may have to do it tomorrow.)

[beachycove]

No particularly informed ideas here, but I'll take a shot (or two):

Anything odd reported by the FWB HD Toolkit diagnostics?

Have you tried fresh cables/ terminator/ drive/ system installation (a spare machine would be ideal, as the trouble could be power to the nubus slot — pesky capacitors) to make sure that the trouble lies with the card itself?

[Unknown_K]

I have a jackhammer in one of my IIfx systems, so they do run in an 030 machine. The pausing is probably a terminator issue, read up in the manual about how you can set up termination on the card (starts at about page 6). There are 3 termination strips on the card that might have to be removed or installed depending on how you are attaching drives to the card (external, internal, or both). I have the PDF if you need it, around 7Mb.

[olePigeon]

Oh, thanks! I'll check. I know it has 1 terminator strip installed on the left block, but the other 2 are empty. I think I remember it being installed on the 68pin block. I plan on using the 50pin unless I can find a fast SCSI drive on the cheap. I'll read the manual and check what I need to terminate per your suggestion. I'll have to check when I get home from work.

I did manage to update the firmware just fine, though.

[Unknown_K]

You still need to terminate the SCSI chain either on the end of the cable or the last drive on the cable. Also some jackhammers come with a one time fuse while others have a resettable one so there might be something going on there (but the card would not show up at all if that was the case).

[olePigeon]

Mine has a fuse that looks like 2 metal sheets on top of each other. I don't know if it's reusable (pair of needle nose pliers?) The card is seen, so the fuse seems OK.

However, I think you're onto something with the termination. According to the book, I should have all 3 blocks terminated when using an internal drive and no external devices (which is what I want to do.) He has it set up for internal drive + fast & wide external. I don't have any fast & wide external drives at the moment. I'll need to somehow find 2 more terminators. They look weird, and aren't standard jumpers.

I'll also want to find a 68-pin terminator. I think I have one, but I'm not sure.

[Unknown_K]

Those should be resister packs not just jumpers (same stuff you find on 50 pin SCSI HDs on the circuit board I think but values are probably different).

[olePigeon]

Yeah. Googled and found out they're they're 10 pin SIP resistors.

The one on the FWB is 10x9x110Ω. I went to my parts store and all they had were 10x9x100Ω and 10x9x120Ω, but not 110Ω.

Can I use a 100Ω or 120Ω instead of the 110Ω? Or are the values very specific?

I did manage to find my wide SCSI terminator. I may not need the other 2 resistors if I terminate the external and connect the internal. Guess I'll find out.

[olePigeon]

Woohoo! I terminated the wide SCSI on the back of the card, put the SIP terminator back in the first block, then connected my HDD to the 50 pin. No more 5 minute pauses! It still pauses, but only 3 or 4 seconds at those pause points instead of the 5 minutes. So it was definitely a termination issue.

Thanks for the help! I now have a working Jackhammer SCSI card.

Wouldn't mind knowing if I can use the new SIPs I bought, though, just so I have a full set of terminators and can change the configuration.

I might have a 68 pin SCSI drive in a box somewhere. Gonna see if I can fish it out.

[Unknown_K]

Not sure how exact they are (does the manufacturer or the SIP terminator list a tolerance for the part like maybe 10%?)

[olePigeon]

Not that I know of. Can I damage the card if I use too much or too little tolerance?

Side note: I have to re-select the HDD as the boot drive when I put in my 040 card. Trying to get it to work with my PPC 601 card. No luck so far.

[olePigeon]

YES! I got it to work finally with my Turbo 601. I found a website with "Turbo 601 eccentricities" with a cool copy of a FAX conversation between an owner of a Turbo 601 & FWB Card. Turns out I had to have the SCSI Manager 4.3 enabled on the 601 card. Mine was disabled for some reason. After I flipped it on, my computer booted!

I now have a Mac IIci with a Turbo 601 upgrade and Jackhammer SCSI card. Phew, that thing is finicky. I should print out the configuration and stick it with my manuals so I don't have to go through this again.

Gonna try out my other terminator resistors, see if they'll work.

[olePigeon]

Shoot. The 100Ω resulted in death chimes, and the 120Ω went back to the really long pauses. So I guess the tolerances are pretty strict. Looks like I'll need to find 110Ω 10x9 SIP resistors. In the meantime, having the single resistor on + the terminator connected to the card isn't so bad. At least it's working.

[Unknown_K]

Better then what you had before.

[trag]

YES! I got it to work finally with my Turbo 601. I found a website with "Turbo 601 eccentricities" with a cool copy of a FAX conversation between an owner of a Turbo 601 & FWB Card.

"Turbo 601 eccentricities" is one of the pages on Brinnoven's "The Unofficial Turbo 601 Site".
http://www.brinnoven.co.uk/turbo601/index.html
That was the place to be, back in the day. There's a ton of great information and experience preserved there for the Turbo601 and there was a sister-site for the PowerPro(?) -- the PPC upgrade for 68040 machines.

I now have a Mac IIci with a Turbo 601 upgrade and Jackhammer SCSI card. Phew, that thing is finicky. I should print out the configuration and stick it with my manuals so I don't have to go through this again.

The JackHammer is actually very simple, if one follows the rules for terminating SCSI properly. The rules for terminating SCSI properly are not so simple...

Adding a Turbo601 into the mix just makes configuration a nightmare. It's like a dancing bear. The wonder is not that it dances so well, but that it dances at all.

I had a Turbo601/66 way back when. I hacked it to run at ~94 MHz.
http://homepage.mac.com/schrier/dt601.html
Once I had everything working well, and had used it for a while, I sold it to some poor soul and took the money and ran as fast as I could to a refurb'ed PowerComputing Power120 (8100 clone).

There was just too much configuration hassle with the Turbo601. If one wanted a fast NuBus, it was better to get an x100 machine.

Still, the Turbo601 is a very cool piece of Mac history.

[Unknown_K]

Yes, the Daystar Powerpro 601 was for the 68040 machines. Even those are not worth it (unless you get the one with 1MB cache and 4 x 72 pin SIMMs) unless you absolutely need one for an AVID system.

All those stop gap upgrades are still cool to own and play with but were only realy useful to users during the brief switch from 68K to PPC where new machines cost a mint and the upgrade kept you working for a few years without having to buy a new machine. It took a while for memory prices to drop and HD speeds to get faster to show how bad a PPC chip would run in an old 68K design.

[olePigeon]

I lucked out in that my Turbo 601 is the 100Mhz version. It's also boxed and minty fresh. I was reading about clock chipping it, but there're only directions for the 60MHz one. Wasn't sure if I wanted to risk it.

Yeah, it's kind of pointless, but I just like the idea of hot rodding my IIci into sillyness. When I get some time and money, I'm going to try an ATX conversion on the power supply so I can also run my RadiusRocket 33 in there. Talk about a configuration nightmare.

[Unknown_K]

Someday I might ATX a Q950 so that I actually have room for all the SCSI drives it can manage.