NetBSD on a Color Classic

[PackingTape]

So I've been setting up system 7.1 on my color classic with an LC 575 motherboard (I know this has a name, I just can't remember it). Does anyone know if netbsd will run on this combination? Also, has anyone tried to run the Dillo web browser on Netbsd? It seems like it would be perfect for a 68k mac.

[ClassicHasClass]

Should be fine, assuming you replace the 575's LC040 with a real 68040. I ran NetBSD for many years on my Q605. Max out the memory and it should be reasonably happy.

Note that NetBSD is changing their support level for the mac68k port, so you might want to try a slightly older release first. For example, I know 1.6.2 works.

[Gorgonops]

Huh, I hadn't heard about the new "Port Tier" system.

(It sort of amuses me that "sparc64" is considered a "Tier I: Focus" platform while macppc's been bumped to "Tier II: Organic", same level as, er... sun2. That in theory makes my 12 year old Ultra 10 more "current" than a five year old PowerBook G4. Whoohoo!)

[ChristTrekker]

I know this has a name, I just can't remember it

Mystic.

Does anyone know if netbsd will run on this combination? Also, has anyone tried to run the Dillo web browser on Netbsd?

It does, and very well! That's what I had on my Mystic (User:ChristTrekker/conrad) until the HD died. I have a build of Dillo 0.85 from the NB 2.1 days. I presume that I tried it at least once. Dillo2 should be even better, assuming you can build it. (FLTK ♥!) I'd like to get WebKit ported to FLTK—that would be a great combination. NetSurf may be a possibility too, with a framebuffer build. Anything GTK is going to be heavy for a 68k. For WMs, I remember using Blackbox, Fluxbox, IceWM, and EDE.

Note that NetBSD is changing their support level for the mac68k port, so you might want to try a slightly older release first. For example, I know 1.6.2 works.

I have an old 1.6 "Mac combo" release CD that I use for my base installs, still. Then I immediately upgrade it to whatever the latest release is. I've never gone wrong doing this. Upgrading NetBSD is pretty painless, and upgrading NetBSD when you haven't done any customization yet is about as close to pain-free as it gets.

Huh, I hadn't heard about the new "Port Tier" system.

First I'd heard of it, too. Makes sense though. I kind of suspected it would eventually come to that.

[ClassicHasClass]

Huh, I hadn't heard about the new "Port Tier" system.

It's very recent. My main objection to it is it sort of flouts NetBSD's storied slogan, "of course it runs NetBSD." I don't fault them for deprecating ports that are less well supported, but it reads like, "if it breaks, we won't fix it unless it's one of our key architectures," and this is likely to just make NetBSD marginalized as most of those key architectures are better served by FreeBSD or OpenBSD.

That said, my longest running NetBSD 68K Mac runs a patched 1.5.2 and I'm loathe to update it because it's very stable at its workload and it's not in an insecure environment.

[Gorgonops]

I can understand the reasoning behind the move, given the goal of attempting to keep NetBSD relevant as a research and embedded systems OS. While NetBSD certainly provides more value in the "cross-platform hobby OS" niche than anything else out there it's not a niche that pays the bills with research grants, etc. There may well be something the core developers have in mind for future of the network stack or storage architecture that they're concerned just won't naturally scale downward enough to fit on some of the more resource-constrained systems on the supported list. (And there's also starting to be toolchain/compiler support issues with some of the more obscure architectures.)

It may be perfectly fair for the core team at this point to draw a line in the sand and say "Look, we need to stop wasting the core developer's time on fixing collateral damage that only affects 'pet distributions' with tiny user bases. We'll support the users of those distributions however we can in helping *them* develop fixes and commit them, but we can't hold the evolution of the mainline OS hostage to ports that can't summon even a single committed developer." I do wonder, though, if that's really going to be enough to make NetBSD a hotbed of innovation again. I haven't followed the BSD scene that closely for several years, but it really seems to me that FreeBSD has stolen a lot of bleeding-edge thunder from NetBSD. (While OpenBSD keeps on doing what it does best, consuming its own arse-end like a never-ending Ouroboros serpent while still managing to produce some decent universally-applicable security code.)

[luddite]

My 575 is running NetBSD 4.0.1 quite happily... much easier to install than older versions I'd tried. FP emulation is still pants, so you will need to upgrade to a full '040 is you want it to actually run

[PackingTape]

I was sort of worried about the whole 68LC040 issue. I gather it's really hopeless to try and run NetBSD without an FPU? What's a good way to get a full 040?

[ClassicHasClass]

They turn up on eBay from time to time (that's where I bought mine). soft-float is really quite dire and doesn't work with much. You'll have many fewer headaches with a real 68040.

[ChristTrekker]

I was under the impression that FPU emulation was doing pretty well? I've never had need to try it, so I suppose I could be wrong.

[Gorgonops]

Once upon a time I'd have suggested the easiest way to get a full-out 68040 would be to steal it from one of the "relatively common" Quadras like a 650 or 800. But I just don't seem to be tripping over "ugly but working" examples of those for near-free like was so easy to do a decade ago...

[Anonymous Freak]

Huh, I hadn't heard about the new "Port Tier" system.

(It sort of amuses me that "sparc64" is considered a "Tier I: Focus" platform while macppc's been bumped to "Tier II: Organic", same level as, er... sun2. That in theory makes my 12 year old Ultra 10 more "current" than a five year old PowerBook G4. Whoohoo!)

In fairness, sparc64 is a still-currently-developed-and-shipping platform. macppc isn't.

[ClassicHasClass]

I was under the impression that FPU emulation was doing pretty well? I've never had need to try it, so I suppose I could be wrong.

Last I checked -- and mind you, I haven't run it personally, I *always* got an FPU -- it would let you boot and do basic things, but installing software and many things in pkgsrc would not work fully with it. I'm sure there were other inexplicable glitches, and it just seemed like a bigger headache than tracking down a new CPU and doing it right.

[johnklos]

If you have an LC '040, read this:
http://68kmla.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=12826

I'd be happy to make new NetBSD 5.1 sets.

[ChristTrekker]

I'd be happy to make new NetBSD 5.1 sets.

2011Q2 is branching soon. After that, crank 'em out!