iBook G3 500MHz Questions

[wardsenatorfe92]

As I've mentioned in the Conquests thread, I just recently obtained a 500MHz iBook G3 off ebay. (64 MB RAM, CD-ROM, 10 GB HDD, OS 9.2.2). Right now, going into college I don't really have the money to invest in it right now, but I still would like to use it for some normal tasks.. (writing papers, minimal internet, etc). Anyway, I have a few questions about the machine (mostly OS oriented, but enough iBook-wise to keep it in this board).

1) Is their any way I could get my printer to directly connect and be usable with this machine? The only limitation is that it has OS 9, and the printer doesn't have OS 9 drivers. It's a Canon Pixma MP150.. one of those scanner/ printer combos. I could care less about scanning, but I'd really like to be able to print directly from the machine if I use it to type up some papers. I know I can simply plug in my flash drive and bring it up on my MacBook, but I just wish there was a way that I could get the machine to print without going to all that trouble. (and for reference, I have Appleworks 5 installed on it).

2) Under OS 9, what would be the best browser? (And 64 MB RAM, of course). I have IE on it right now, but theres a lot of websites that IE just completely spaces out on. I know that all the browsers are going to be mildly obsolete, but I'd still like to know if theres something more usable out there. I know about Classila, I have it installed but I don't have enough RAM for it to run.

3) Final question, I've heard a lot about the white "iBook G3/G4" series and the "solder problems.." should I be worried about carrying this laptop around? I don't mean like abusing it, but more like carrying it around with me in a backpack in a case. The machine doesn't show any symptoms of any "soldering" problems, but I don't want to do anything to make the machine inoperable.

Anyway, thanks for the help.. I know most of these questions might have been asked before, but I can't find the answers. I know how it is, I'm a regular on a ton of other forums.. haha.

Jake.

[MattB]

As far as browser choice is concerned, I've got IE5.1 and Netscape 7 running on my Kanga. Netscape seems to work a bit better and has fewer problems with modern websites.

[wardsenatorfe92]

As far as browser choice is concerned, I've got IE5.1 and Netscape 7 running on my Kanga. Netscape seems to work a bit better and has fewer problems with modern websites.

I just looked that up and sounds like a great substitute to IE! Definitely going to check that out tomorrow, thanks!

[MattB]

As far as browser choice is concerned, I've got IE5.1 and Netscape 7 running on my Kanga. Netscape seems to work a bit better and has fewer problems with modern websites.

I just looked that up and sounds like a great substitute to IE! Definitely going to check that out tomorrow, thanks!

Yeah as far as I can tell it's the most recent browser that will run reliably on OS9. It should definitely run well on your iBook...it runs at acceptable speed on my 250MHz Kanga. I would recommend upgrading the RAM in your iBook though. The 160MB I've got in my Kanga makes a huge difference.

[phreakout]

I, too recommend Netscape. I use versions 4 through 6 with no major problems, other than support for some of the most recent web technologies. The lower versions are more leaner and run good. Btw, try turning on the RAM Disk in the Memory Control Panel and place the browser's temporary internet cache files folder in the RAM Disk for a much faster speed. Doing so keeps the browser from constantly accessing the hard drive while online, as the temp files are being read/written in the Mac's RAM. This only works in System 6, 7, Mac OS 8 and 9; not in Mac OS X.

73s de Phreakout.

[ClassicHasClass]

How much RAM do you have free under About This Macintosh? Is Virtual Memory or RAM Doubler not an option for you? (And iBook RAM is dirt cheap. I stuck a 512MB SO-DIMM in my blueberryBook.)

FTR, I always test Classilla releases on my 1400, which has 60MB of RAM and is RAMDoubled to 120M, but I've tried to have some sort of sane minimum requirement (Mozilla is too memory-hungry to run in much less however).

[wardsenatorfe92]

Thanks for the help everyone, but now I'm running into some really bad problems again.

I'll answer questions first. Classic, I have about 33.5MB Free (the OS takes about 30.1MB). If I'm correct, I have (or had) virtual memory set up, I've never heard of RAM Doubler. I'll explain later in my post why I'm sorta holding off on upgrades.

Now to my problems.. I downloaded Netscape 7.01.. but this iBook is starting to flashback some I had problems when I originally got it. I went to open the file and it popped up an error like below, but its either Type 1, 2 or 3.

http://floatzel.net/anything/error/Error%20type%203.png

I restarted the machine, redownloaded the file and everytime it tries to load Stuffit Expander, it doesn't even load, the machine simply hard-locks (where you can't even mouse the mouse but the caps lock, etc still works). It will change the task bar at the top to go blank like its about to load the program, but just freezes. I've also noticed that another old symptom, trackpad malfunctions coming back. Before I reinstalled OS 9, it had an issue where after about 3-5 minutes of use, the trackpad would start wanting to get the mouse pointer stuck in areas of the screen and the pointer would float back to the same area (or areas) and act really screwy. Since I reinstalled OS 9 (and replaced the battery), I haven't had any issues until now. Even when I initially went to reinstall Mac OS, I had an issue because it kept saying certain files could not be overwritten (like Apple CDPlayer) so I eventually had to start over and drag the entire system folder to the trash and delete it first. I'm starting to wonder if its a machine problem rather than the OS, like maybe the hard drive is going out? The HD runs rather loud, if you let the computer to idle and it turns off the HD but leaves the screen on, its virtually silent.

Anywho, any suggestions?

[Mars478]

I personally think you should buy 256 mb of ram (or more) and use OSX and swap the HD. Sounds like the HD is toasted...

[wardsenatorfe92]

I personally think you should buy 256 mb of ram (or more) and use OSX and swap the HD. Sounds like the HD is toasted...

Yeah, it figures. I bought the machine for OS 9 (considering I already have OS X on my MacBook), but I don't know. I got it dirt cheap, thats probably why LOL. I'll wait and see, anyone else able to confirm these are symptoms of a failing HDD?

[Christopher]

I've noticed that when those particular iBook's have a failing hard drive, it's hard to determine, because the clunks are so random, it's not as consecutive as they usually are in other hard drive's I've heard. Must be the IBM made drives of that era, I don't know.

Man, I can't remember exactly why that error happens. I used to be able to and it was all good.

Try saving the file instead of saying open with app X Y or Z. Don't remember if IE of that time had the ability or not.

[wardsenatorfe92]

I've noticed that when those particular iBook's have a failing hard drive, it's hard to determine, because the clunks are so random, it's not as consecutive as they usually are in other hard drive's I've heard. Must be the IBM made drives of that era, I don't know.

Man, I can't remember exactly why that error happens. I used to be able to and it was all good.

Try saving the file instead of saying open with app X Y or Z. Don't remember if IE of that time had the ability or not.

Well see, I saved the file two different methods. The first time, I downloaded it to my flash drive and then brought it over to my iBook. That's when I got the "Type 2 error.. close all applications and restart". Then I tried directly downloading it in IE to the desktop, and now it doesn't even ask how to open the file, it just locks the system up solid. So I'm not really sure what to do now..

HDD wise, I'm not really sure either if thats symptoms of a failing hard drive or not. I just know I've used Mac OS 9 Macs for years, heck, grew up on them, and I've never experienced these problems until I got this machine... so whatever is going on, is beyond me. My only thing is I'm worrying its going to start doing this to all the applications again, like before, and then get to the point it won't even boot and I'll have to reinstall Mac OS. The other guys probably right, it might need a new hard drive and I know RAM would help, but then again I want to make sure before I go out and replace it, that it is the problem for sure.

Thanks for the help everyone

[wardsenatorfe92]

I know this is probably a hard question I'm asking, but I am still wondering if this is hard drive related at all?

Originally when I went to reinstall Mac OS 9.2.1 (using the OS 9 CD), it had trouble reinstalling for some reason, and I ended up having to drag all the system folders into the trash and then trying to reinstall.. could that have been a problem that might have left bits and pieces behind of whatever was plaguing the machine?

Anyway, I just want to be able to semi-use the machine with the specs it has rather than upgrading it, I like Classic and I'd like to keep it with OS 9 if possible.

Thanks.

[Christopher]

When you are booted from the OS 9 disk, have you tried opening up Drive Setup and Initialing the disk?

After that have you proceeded to tell the OS 9 installer to "Preform a clean installation of the System Folder"?

After that is all said and done, open up Stuffit and from one the menu's(can't remember which) did you tell it to find the file you are trying to unstuff? I've found that just double clicking on the file will cause it not to work(I'm guessing what you're describing may be it).

[wardsenatorfe92]

When you are booted from the OS 9 disk, have you tried opening up Drive Setup and Initialing the disk?

After that have you proceeded to tell the OS 9 installer to "Preform a clean installation of the System Folder"?

After that is all said and done, open up Stuffit and from one the menu's(can't remember which) did you tell it to find the file you are trying to unstuff? I've found that just double clicking on the file will cause it not to work(I'm guessing what you're describing may be it).

I'll try that and get back with you, hopefully that works! I just need to backup all the iTunes music I installed on it since!

[phreakout]

If you suspect that the hard drive is bad, try using Disk First Aid, included in the Applications > Utilities folder. Run it and see if any errors come up. If not, then you could try running a copy of Norton Systems Utilities 3.5 or later to check for problems.

You said the iBook has 64MB RAM installed. This should be okay to run most apps and whatnot under OS9, but upgrading it to 128MB or higher will give you more elbow room. Another thing you could try (and this is to address the Type errors you're getting), the app that freezes or quits unexpectedly may need to have more memory addressed to the program. Try this:

1.) Navigate to the file that the app is stored in (for example, Internet Explorer, open up the hard drive and get inside its main folder).

2.) Use the mouse and click once to highlight the app's file icon.

3.) Go to the File menu and choose Get Info (or keyboard shortcut Command and letter I).

4.) In the pull-down menu, you'll find Memory. Select it and change the number in the Minimum Size box. I recommend no more than double the number value that was set (for example, if it says 2048 K, then set it to 4096, which is double the amount).

5.) Close the window and run the app again. Do the function you're trying to do when you received the error and see if it happens again. If not, then you may have issues with the software installed or with the hard drive.

You could also be missing Extensions or you may even have to try deleting the Preference file for that app. It could be any one of these things you should try. It's hard to tell without having the machine in front of me. I can make guesses, but try to pinpoint where the problem is originating.

Try all this out and report back to us with results.

73s de Phreakout.

[wardsenatorfe92]

I'd like to thank everyone for their help, I finally got around to messing with the iBook again.

I did what you said Phreakout, but Stuffit still wouldn't open. First Disk Aid said the HDD was alright, tested it twice, once by 9.2.1 CD. I backed EVERYTHING up to a thumbdrive and proceeded to reinstall Mac OS. Initialized the Hard Disk and performed a clean installation, and it works like a charm so far! Thanks so much guys. Little did I know (Netscape Navigator) installed with Mac OS, so i don't have to worry about trying to install it (Although its version 4.5, I don't know if they released any other OS 9 versions after that). It was really easy to back up though, simply drag all the program files to my thumb drive and back to the HDD, and they still work!

The only problem I have is Appleworks 5 (which I had before the reinstall), is when you view the Clipart Library, it won't let you close out the clipart windows once they are open. You have to completely close the program and reopen to get rid of those menus, but thats still pretty minor since I don't really use clipart much. Hopefully it'll work here on out, but thanks again guys for the help so far.

Jake

[wardsenatorfe92]

...AND I spoke too soon. I went to open up a help menu to reconfigure my Favorite keys and I'm getting bomb errors.. AGAIN. After initializing the disk and doing a clean installation. I don't know whats wrong with the machine, it must be cursed. I used OS 8/9 for the first half of my life without ever experiencing any problems of this sort until now.. even though First Disk Aid says the HDD is working, would this be symptoms of it going out still? Or something worse?

Thanks.

[Cory5412]

Congratulations on that iBook G3! The 500 or 600MHz (Rage128) models are the pair of dualUSB iBooks I'll still admit to having wanted when they were new, and I'll also admit I would still not mind having today.

Even though DFA currently says the disk is not bad, I wouldn't discount the very distinct possibility that a laptop that was sold to be durable nine to ten years ago now has a disk that's going bad. This is a unique opportunity to really make the iBook G3@500MHz, which is considered by some to be one of the most durable and reliable dualUSB iBook models, into a fantastically reliable system.

If you have some money to put into it, I'd very seriously look at getting an SSD for it. Something like this: this from this search would be fantastic, I bet.

Although I would absolutely recommend that you install OS 9 and try your hardest to create a situation where you never have to turn on swap, due to the way SSDs work (to my understanding), doing something like swap on an SSD will cause it die earlier than not. It may be years before VM on OS9 kills it, but I think you'd be happier with 320 or 640mb of physical memory anyway. So even without an SSD, I recommend trying to run without VM or RamDoubler.

As far as web browsers go, honestly? I hate to say this, but IE5 is what I have always found to be the most reliable browser on Mac OS 9. I haven't used System 9 in awhile, of course, but when I was using it, the Internet had already passed it by, and even on my 1.0GHz G4 with a half a gig of ram, Netscape 7 was way slow, and even though IE5 properly loads a tad fewer sites than NS7 or iCab, it crashed far less often.

But... if you absolutely need access to the web, In these times, Classilla is probably your best bet, as it's 2010, several years after I ran OS 9 on any meaningfully frequent basis.

Also, there are phone and mobile versions of a lot of popular web sites. m.twitter.com and i.facebook.com, m.facebook.com or zero.facebook.com tend to work fine in browsers for old machines, and of course you could get an app like NCSA Telnet or MacSSH and use Lynx or Links on a public UNIX system like SDF, or if you know anyone with a Linux/UNIX server, ask them for a shell on that machine, or inquire with your school/university (when you're there) about shell access, many schools still have a general purpose UNIX or Linux server hanging out for students to access.

Lastly, AppleWorks 5 is a great choice for a writing environment, but if you can get access to one, another machine with AW5 would be beneficial, so that you have another point of access for those files, should, for whatever reason, your iBook become inaccessible. Saving the files as RTF is another good idea, since you can then use them natively in both AW5, any other app on the iBook, or in TextEdit or whatever on your MacBook.

Sorry for the long post, it was an interesting thread that I hadn't caught before, so I had a lot of things to say.

[tyrannis]

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this directly, but the early Dual USB iBooks with Rage graphics did not suffer from the GPU problems that the later Radeon models did. In fact, except for failing IBM hard drives, they are quite reliable.

[protocol7]

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this directly, but the early Dual USB iBooks with Rage graphics did not suffer from the GPU problems that the later Radeon models did. In fact, except for failing IBM hard drives, they are quite reliable.

Yep. I got two iBooks last year. The 500 had a dead HD and the 800 had the Radeon problem. The 500 works fine except the power connection is quite loose. If the psu connection moves a little it cuts the power to the iBook.

[wardsenatorfe92]

Thanks for the replies, guys. The iBook seems to work when it wants, but so far its doing what I've asked it to do, I just wish it would stop doing these random "bombs". I might consider upgrading it to 10.4 if I can max out the RAM and/or get a new HDD, but I don't have the money to invest in it right now (and also considering I got a perfectly working MacBook that i'm typing off of . ) But its definitely something I'll hold onto.

Thanks again everyone for the replies.. if anyone else has a suggestion about the "bomb" errors, I'd love to get to a conclusion and keep the machine running its native OS.

As for Appleworks, there was a way to save into Word 1995 format (or something similar.. creates a .doc), and I've been able to transfer it to my desktop and print it off in Word 2002 (though its a tad buggy). SSD HD wouldn't be a half bad idea, but then again I'm looking for more room on the HDD if I was to actually use it, that seems to be the downfall of SSD HD's.

[wardsenatorfe92]

I've messed around with the machine some more.. and theres only one way I've been able to get the machine to successfully replicate the error. Its only when I try to open "Mac Help" or.. "Late Breaking News".. (I think thats the actual file), that it gives me the Bomb error message. Other than that, the machine has so far worked completely fine. Could this file somehow not copied over right? If I got a good copy off another OS 9 machine, do you think it would solve that problem?

I still don't understand why the machine is so hardheaded.. I'll just say its 'cursed'.

Jake

[Floydy]

I prefer the 'metalled' look of the early 2nd-Gen iBook to the later models and when you see one in mint condition, they are still a thing of beauty.

Despite negative press over dual USB iBooks, the early models were well made and not as unreliable as reports may suggest. You should be careful though, when carrying one around given the age of these portables now.

The 12.1" (500MHz) iBook G3 fares a little better than the 14" (600MHz+) with regards to MLB/GPU failure. The 14" chassis flexes far more than the 12.1" especially if it was regularly carried with one hand underneath from the opposite side of the battery. Symptoms of MLB/GPU failure are fairly obvious such as random Kernel Panics, artefacts appearing on the screen, garbled or shimmering video, freezes or simply no video not related to backlight failure. HDD issues may arise but are more likely to be accompanied by other symptoms.
Gently flexing the chassis (to put pressure onto the MLB) after resetting the PMU can in some cases temporarily 'revive' a seemingly 'dead' iBook G3

The DC-IN board is a little fragile on all of these including the later G4. The part is inexpensive and not too difficult to fit so long as you keep track of all the screws (which really needed to be all the same length!!!). If the tip/ring of the power adapter is not perfectly round or the pin is not straight then you may experience intermittent charging so that should always be checked first.

Another vote for Classilla from me but on Mac OS 9, you do need several browsers to be able to view most websites. Netscape 7 works well enough but often crops web pages off on the left hand side.

HDD failures on these PowerPC portables are often gradual and not always picked up by disk 1st aid/disk utility in time...

[wardsenatorfe92]

Anyone still have any ideas why this Mac won't open applications? After a complete reformat and reinstall of OS 9.2.2, it still won't launch Stuffit Expander (type 3 error.. save work & restart) and it won't let me open some system files like "Late Breaking News.." aka Mac Help.

(Also, sometimes when it goes to shut down.. it gives me a bomb error "Finder".. error type 7?

I appreciate any help!

[Floydy]

After a complete reformat and reinstall of OS 9.2.2, it still won't launch Stuffit Expander (type 3 error.. save work & restart) and it won't let me open some system files like "Late Breaking News.." aka Mac Help.

(Also, sometimes when it goes to shut down.. it gives me a bomb error "Finder".. error type 7?

If the HDD allowed a reformat and re-install, that leaves RAM (simplest to isolate by removing from under the keyboard) OR the soldered RAM on the logic board could be faulty which may not get accessed until all of the RAM is utilised...

First though; the disc that was used to install Mac OS - does it have any scratches, does it need a clean, is the disc a retail version of Mac OS 9x, did you update from a version earlier than Mac OS 9.22?

Secondly: are these errors only occurring with just the default Mac OS 9 extensions and control panels?

Thirdly: have you tried an earlier version of Mac OS 9 (9.0.4, 9.1, 9.2.1)?

There is KB article on apple.com re: Type 1, Type 2, and Type 3 System Errors
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA21578?viewlocale=en_US

Here is a table from apple.com, re: System Error Codes: 1 to 32767
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2088?viewlocale=en_US
(Many are fairly cryptic)