Mac II Shortage?

[Scott Baret]

It seems there aren't too many Mac II's on eBay anymore. Any theories?

[Unknown_K]

IIci and IIsi still pop up, IIfx, IIx, and II's are much rarer.

68K machines in general (especially the larger sized ones) are just not showing up that often because they either don't sell well or because people just don't have that many laying around to sell.

I have seen some decent prices for 840av's and IIfx's when they do show up. Never seen a IIx on ebay, and Mac II's very rarely.

[TylerEss]

They're huge and aren't really worth much even if the right buyer pops up: ergo, only people that care about them bother to sell them. Most people probably just throw them away these days, because the profit they could make off of them wouldn't be worth their time to pack and ship them.

It's so sad, isn't it?

[MacMan]

There is a problem in the UK too in that shipping rates have gone up substantially and now take into account the size of parcels as well as the weight. Since II's are an awkward size, the shipping would cost too much to be worth it.

[FunnymanSE30]

possibly a large amount of them are asumed completely dead because in the big case IIs if 1 pram battery is dead they dont show any signs of life.

[Quadraman]

It's most likely a shipping issue. I would imagine buyers aren't too eager to pay $10 for a Mac II and $40 to ship it. You can buy a G3 iMac for that now.

[Unknown_K]

If somebody wanted a G3 they would buy a G3, if you are going to buy a Mac II I would think you had a specific use for it.

[MacMan]

I was delighted to find a IIcx amongst a computer clearout at Uni. Currently it is lurking on the floor behind my electric organ, but I'm going to dig it out over the summer and have a good play with it. System 6 in colour is great fun!

[The Macster]

If somebody wanted a G3 they would buy a G3, if you are going to buy a Mac II I would think you had a specific use for it.

I think what he probably meant was that if a G3 is only worth $50, then a II must have a market value a lot lower than that, so no-one is going to want to pay $50 for one - finding one locally is the only option that really makes sense with something as heavy and with so little commercial value as a Mac II - if the don't have a market value of anywhere near $50 then no-one will want to pay that much for one, regardless of whether the money is going to the seller or is going on shipping expenses

[Unknown_K]

You can't compare a low end but usable for daily tasks machine with a collector items value. Computers drop in value as their usefullness diminishes, then rise on their collectability value. A Mac II is not what I would call usable these days for most tasks, a G3 is for many tasks. If you look at the best mac II (the IIfx), I have seen them sell on ebay for over $50. Like I said before a person who buys a Mac II does so to add to his collection, a G3 buyer might just need a 2nd internet machine or a cheap server.

[The Macster]

True - do IIs really have any value as collector's items though? Usually it seems to be only the "special" ones that have market value in this way ie 128k/Portable/Tam/Cube. I guess a collector might pay something for a pristine one, but an average one seems unlikely (at least to me) to fetch anything really.

[Unknown_K]

Personally I would love a II or a IIx (or a spare IIfx), mostly because they are easy to work in and I collect tons of Nubus cards and need someplace to install them. Granted I don't think I would pay more then $20 for one, and would have to invest another $10 getting 2 PRAM batteries, but it would be worth it for what I use them for.

Each collector has his own ideas of what things are worth, you might think I am nuts spending $30 on a Mac II, I might look at people funny spending $400+ on an SE/30 (I would like a greyscale SE/30 but would never pay anywhere near that for one). Someday I might get around to putting together the first AVID video editing machine (sold in a Mac IIx), well if I knew what was in it and could find the software.

[TylerEss]

About collector value: I think that if a Mac II is worth only $10 on the open market, then it has a pretty good collector value. Consider the collector value of a 16MHz 386 today... you'd be hard pressed to give one away. The fact that people will buy them for any amount of money is astonishing to me, and evidence that people love Macs.

The pity is that the $10 I'm so impressed with is such an objectively low number, so it gets back to the "the uninterested won't make enough money to care" problem.

[The Macster]

Personally I would love a II or a IIx (or a spare IIfx), mostly because they are easy to work in and I collect tons of Nubus cards and need someplace to install them. Granted I don't think I would pay more then $20 for one, and would have to invest another $10 getting 2 PRAM batteries, but it would be worth it for what I use them for.

A IIfx would be kind of cool - I did actually have a serious think about going for it when I saw one offered for free locally (about a year ago now), but looking at size online I decided in the end that I just couldn't I do quite like "big" computers like the Mac II, and yes if you have lots of interesting cards they are good machines for that too, but sadly they are just a bit too big...

I tend not to think of old computers (ie ones that don't have any market value as useable machines, although many value-less machines eg G3s are still extremely useable) as having any monetary value though, at least not mass-produced ones like Macs - I've seen so many old Macs of all types given away for nothing that it doesn't seem worth spending money on them, especially not shipping them across the country, as if you wait a bit longer then something close to what you're after should eventually come up locally.


A 16 MHz 386 might actually be of interest to collectors as it's so old, especially if it's one of the more interesting ones like an old IBM, as opposed to some dull consumer PC (if they really had "consumer PCs" in those days). Judging by the local Freecycle group and what gets re-offered having received no takers, it seems to be 486 and early Pentium (~100 MHz kind of thing) machines that are the ones you can barely give away now, as well as CRT screens which also seem to be very much out of favour now. On the other hand, any sort of laptop (486, broken etc) or LCD screen (eg completely dead ones) seems to get snapped up almost instantly.

[Kallikak]

A Mac II is the only Mac that runs a system earlier than System 6 in colour. Granted it doesn't look very different, but that was the aspect that interested me. Also, it was the first expandable mac, and in many ways merged the Apple II spirit into the Mac line.

I bought mine for $5, but subsequently payed out another $10 for a new motherboard. The initial motherboard had a problem with sound, and the PRAM batteries were dead. I was able to get a new in box motherboard, and that gave me the original ROMs and HMMU (my first one had the IIx ROM upgrade and PMMU) plus two working PRAM batteries.

I run A/UX 2 and System 5 on mine.

Original IIs pop up on ebay occasionally, and IIx's more often. IIci's are even approaching common. By way of contrast, I don't think I've even seen a Quadra 650 listed...

Ken

[Unknown_K]

486/Pentium 1 machines seem to be in demand for DOS gamers on ebay, I have seen quite a few hit $80 or $100 if they are setup for DOS gaming and have the correct hardware for it (soundblaster, both floppy drives, decent video card).

Granted there is not enough interest to sell thousands of them, but the supply is reletively low these days.

I think people here have taken for granted how easy it is to find old 68K Macs in the last few years, they are drying up atleast around here.

[The Macster]

486/Pentium 1 machines seem to be in demand for DOS gamers on ebay, I have seen quite a few hit $80 or $100 if they are setup for DOS gaming and have the correct hardware for it (soundblaster, both floppy drives, decent video card).

That's crazy! I'm sure I could get a 486, P100 etc easily from Freecycle, there always seems to be loads of that kind of stuff around and not a lot of demand for it. A lot of people seem to have old bits like that hanging around, and upgrades like the old video cards etc. I haven't seen a 68k Mac for a little while now actually, whereas ancient PCs seem a lot more common. Someone did have an SE on Freecycle a couple of months ago, that was probably the most recent 68k I've seen (and there seem to be quite a lot of people interested in that kind of thing ie more collectable/interesting old machines around here, so they always go quickly).

[Unknown_K]

The local freecycle here had pentium II and up machines mostly, havnt seen a AT style case (pentium 1 and before) in a long time. 486 VLB machines (best for DOS gamers) are pretty much hard to find. It seems to me maybe the people in the UK hold onto obsolete equipment a little longer, but I would think 486 machines have been mostly recycled by now there as well. While I know people with lots of pieces and parts, they are definatly not the norm.

[The Macster]

Such a shame if they have all been thrown away (although probably quite a lot of people here think good riddance! ) - if I had more space I probably would have some sort of vintage PC, I think I have a copy of the full Windows NT 3.5 BackOffice Server somewhere which would be an interesting system to play around with on such a machine (especially if you had enough machines to set up a little NT3 network), plus you could dual-boot it with Windows 3.11 and play vintage games etc.

I think I mentioned before that I'm at uni in an area where I get the impression from the local Freecycle group that there's quite a lot of geeks who have hung on to this kind of hardware more than most will have done. The IBM 286 that I have came from there - I actually had two similar machines at one point as I went to pick up one but was persuaded to take both, but I didn't have the space to keep both so re-freecycled one of them. That is of course older than the machines you mention that are of interest for Dos games (except really really old ones), NT3 etc though.

[Scott Baret]

486's still are around because they can be scrapped for a few parts. I've junked a few that I've taken in for floppy drives, CD-ROMs, ethernet cards, and sound cards. I've also found uses for the keyboards, mice, hard drives, and even the monitors. All of these can make good quick fixes.

And I agree about DOS gamers. Ever since Underdogs came around there seems to have been a renewed interest in it. DOS games seem to be treated like NES games to a degree. An old 486 is sort of like an NES on the market...yet better as you can always part it out if the mobo or power supply conks out.

[equill]

What is more disquieting to think about—to give me the cold horrors, in fact—is the number of interesting but no-longer-available add-on cards and peripherals that must go straight to the dump or landfill. Because they are hidden in machines that are considered to be of no value, or separated from the machines that they enhanced, they are accorded no significance by the unknowing.

de

[Unknown_K]

That happens all the time. A guy in AZ who was moving had a garage full of machines he was ditching in a hurry. I managed to snag a free Amiga 3000 full of cards (thanks to cory), but (2) Mac IIfx with the rare 68040/33 Accelerators (the type with RAM sockets) were eventualy junked before I could get my hands on them.

I would think thousands on compacts with various accelerators have been junked along with plenty of 950's and mac IIs with audio/video cards. Even if the cards do not get junked all the software, manuals, and cables end up lost forever.

[Charlieman]

What is more disquieting to think about—to give me the cold horrors, in fact—is the number of interesting but no-longer-available add-on cards and peripherals that must go straight to the dump or landfill.

Mea culpa. In 2000 I passed a 486 PC to the scrapper, without realising that it contained an ISA DecTalk card. I kicked myself a few years later when I came across the disks and documentation set.

[Charlieman]

On the other hand, any sort of laptop (486, broken etc) or LCD screen (eg completely dead ones) seems to get snapped up almost instantly.

Old laptops with serial ports are popular with electronics amateurs and radio hams. A few years ago, I met someone who was looking for a cheap and cheerful laptop that could be used to re-program the engine in his racing saloon in the paddock at a racing circuit. Any old PC laptop would have done the job, as long as the battery would run for fifteen minutes.

[Unknown_K]

I hear people used to get old machine with serial ports so they could program their satelite dishes.