Getting files onto old compact Macs

[reallyrandy]

I have an SE/30 running System 6, a Plus running System 6, a Classic II running System 7, and some other ethernet enabled Macs running System 8 to Lion.

When I download old OS's and old system 6 and 7 software I have no way of getting them from my newer Macs to my older Macs. The old ones don't have ethernet and the new ones don't have floppies.

Is there an easy way to bridge the PhoneNet network to the ethernet network? Or should I get a USB floppy? Or maybe a SCSI zip drive and a USB zip drive?

What do you guys do?

TIA

[bibilit]

I have a USB floppy drive, and some computers able to fill the gap in between (a Powermac G3 Beige with a floppy drive and Ethernet as standard, even the Powerbook 5300 can do the trick wirelessly)

the cheaper for you will be the USB floppy drive i think.

[Arthegall]

Be aware that USB floppy drives won't be VBR and won't write 800k disks for the Plus.
I recommend using ZIP (SCSI on the old machines, USB on the new) or getting a G3 with a VBR floppy drive.

Of course, you could use the USB floppy to talk to your 1.4 floppy machines which could then talk to the Plus.

[spiceyokooko]

It all depends on what long term solution you want to implement and how much you want to spend.

All the options you suggest would work but the most elegant solution I think is to put in a Apple LocalTalk to Ethernet converter/bridge onto one of the older Macs and hook the rest up via LocalTalk cabling. So now you have a bridge between your LocalTalk network and ethernet network. The downside is – those type converters are neither cheap nor easy to find.

The SCSI zips, removable media/external SCSI HD/floppy drive is really just a fudge to get round the problem - it's not ideal and will be inconvenient to use, but if you only need to do it now and again it would work.

I use a USB flash card to move files from my OSX machine to my older PowerMac 9600 which has a 2 port USB card in it, from there I can either put them onto floppy or hook the 9600 into an ethernet network and move files that way.

Anther alternative (that may well prove cheaper and easier to find than the ethernet to LocalTalk converter) is to simply buy an older Macintosh which has both LocalTalk and either an ethernet NIC or onboard ethernet which could effectively act as your LocalTalk to ethernet bridge. You simply hook the machine into the ethernet network and the LocalTalk networks - you may have to switch AppleTalk via LocalTalk to Ethernet and vice versa but it's still a far easier prospect than having to keep plugging and unplugging external drives.

I think there's also a software implementation of AppleTalk over LocalTalk to Ethernet conversion which could run on that machine, but I don't know much about that to be honest.

You've got a number of options, which you choose will depend ultimately on what you want to do.

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I use Zip Drives on almost every Mac I have set up at any given time. I've got a USB Zip 250 on the NetBook and a FireWire Zip 250 on my QS'02 9.2.2 MainMac for decompression a/o burning to CD if I need anything larger than 100MB on the SCSI Macs.

A USB Floppy Drive sounds like a good investment though! Which one do you recommend? On what Computer and OS do you run yours on and what formats does it support?

Linky?

edit: WOW! Two replies with great info posted as I typed mine! 68kMLA BDBomba!!!

[Mk.558]

There is a handy guide in my sig for your reference.

(I'll be updating it soon with LocalTalk info.)

What "other ethernet enabled Macs" are they? You have two choice: A LocalTalk network or an all-ethernet Network.

The SE/30 can get an ethernet card, a LocalTalk to PhoneNet adaptor, or a SCSI to Ethernet adaptor, as can the Classic II. The Plus can get a SCSI to Ethernet or LocalTalk to Ethernet.

I would just get four DIN-8 to LocalTalk adaptors, two 120ohm terminating resistors, some telephone wire, and hook up all the machines that can can do LocalTalk to each other. One machine will have to be the gateway between LocalTalk and Ethernet: I don't know if OS X can do LocalTalk, but you can't have LocalTalk and Ethernet on the same computer active. But you can just switch between them quickly on the gateway machine -- just leave the TCP/IP (or Network if you use MacTCP), AppleTalk and Chooser windows open (WindowShade may help) and flick between the two network types.

The benefit is that your machines with System 6 won't need to do MacTCP and Ethernet work, but it's not that hard because others have done the legwork for you. But the major benefit is PhoneNet connectors are DIRT cheap. Type "phonenet" into eBay and marvel.

Here's the problem with USB floppy drives: They only support PC 720KB and 1.44MB sizes. You can only use 720KB disks if you have a SuperDrive and PC Exchange (7.1 MAY be able to do it, but better is 7.5). Also, floppies are notoriously unreliable, fickle and tiresome. Don't bother with Zip disks either -- trust me, you can use LocalTalk (even ethernet, as I have done) on a single 800K boot floppy (but two for better work, see my Guide).

Once you use networking reliably, you won't bother with floppies. Trust me.

[reallyrandy]

I checked out old powerbooks with a floppy AND ethernet but I think it's just the 500 series that has both. I'll check out MacTracker and try to find a laptop with both LocalTalk AND Ethernet ports.

I'll also look on ebay for a LocalTalk to Ethernet bridge as that may be cheaper than a old laptop.

I'm putting together a "Mac Museum" sorta thing and I'm trying to restore all these machines to their original configurations. I also have an "iLamp" imac, a Newton eMate, a couple clamshell ibooks, a G3 bronze key and a 12" white G3 laptop. Of course my current Mac is a 15" quad core i7 MBP.

If any of you know of a good deal on a LocalTalk/Ethernet bridge or a 500 series PB please let me know.

[spiceyokooko]

I think the Powerbook 520 had onboard ethernet and a serial printer port.

Another way might be to find a Powerbook with a serial port and a PC Card slot where you can add an ethernet card.

[reallyrandy]

I think I would need a Farallon EtherWave transceiver for an AAUI based Mac. According to MacTracker, the 3400c, and the PBG3 series had serial and 10 Base-T.

[Mk.558]

You could use Ethernet for all of them, but your System 6 and 7 (7.5.5 can go to 10.4.11, 7.6.1 can hook up to 10.5.8) machines will NOT connect to anything higher than 10.3.9 unless you use FTP. You're better off using AFP, because you can share disks and volumes (but you can't "share" a "share" unless you use something like Rumpus).

The Ethernet machines will all need a router, depending on how many machines you have, you might need a router or gateway with more than four ports. If you use LocalTalk for the old machines, then a simple daisy-chain all the way up to the bridge machine would be the easiest and cheapest (and the most practical).

[spiceyokooko]

Well if you've already got a G3 Lombard, bronze keyboard - there's your answer!

Looks like you may not have to buy anything - always good!

Cheers!

[bibilit]

Well if you've already got a G3 Lombard, bronze keyboard - there's your answer!

No floppy drive is present if i can remember, or i am wrong ?

[danielb]

Hi all,

This is my first ever post here, so "hi".

Here's what I do:

I have a Mac Plus, and getting stuff onto it was a major puzzle. My solution was to use a Quadra 650, which is connected to the Internet. I download stuff on the Q650, and copy it onto a zip disk. The Mac Plus can either boot directly from the zip disk, or else I can copy stuff from the zip disk to the Mac Plus's hard disk.

D.

[Arthegall]

Hi danielb! Welcome aboard!

Always nice to run into a fellow Mac Plus user.

Drop on over to the lounge and say hello. Post some pics of your stuff. Have fun!

In regards to the network option, I've never set one up, even though with my Wallstreet I suppose I could. I would need to look more into how to get the Wallstreet to talk to Lion over Ethernet, though. I remember having trouble with that back when it was Tiger or Leopard. I think that's why I XPostFactoed Jaguar on in the first place. I hate OSX on the Wallstreet, though. It seems so unnecessary and beside the point.

I like floppies, personally. One, I do so much work archiving vintage software, and two, it feels so . . . exactly like how I used to work. I never had a permanent network at home until my wife and I got our first wireless router with broadband.

[spiceyokooko]

No floppy drive is present if i can remember, or i am wrong ?

I wasn't really thinking about the floppy drive to be honest, but that machine does have a serial port and ethernet, so could act as his LocalTalk to Ethernet bridge machine, if that's the route he wants to take.

Cheers!

[beachycove]

The most robust way to bridge LocalTalk and EtherTalk networks is via the old software router from Apple: "Apple Internet Router."

To use it, you are best to run an early System 7 on a 68030 or 68040 Mac, and you need a machine with both LocalTalk and ethernet network connectors (like a 540c).

It is very stable, running for months without attention -- and though much the same thing can be achieved with hardware bridges, I have found two of the latter to be flaky by comparison, requiring restarts, etc.

The free LocalTalk Bridge, which has been mentioned, is essentially a cut-down version of Apple Internet Router, the latter being the high-end implementation of the routing software. It is one of the handful of products that can give you AppleTalk Zones, btw.

[RS232]

I use a SCSI Zip 100 on my Macintosh Plus and an USB Zip 100 on the my 2009 iMac to transfer stuff. I picked up the ZIP drives very cheap on eBay and this set up works like a dream. The iMac is dual boot... I need to boot the iMac in 10.5 (Leopard) to do this as later versions won't let you write! Booting up on the Macintosh Plus is faster and quieter with the ZIP.

[Strimkind]

My solution is:

- download a CD's worth on my Mac Mini
- burn it all to CD
- Put the CD in my 140c0 (3400c, kanga, wallstreet will work too)
- copy files to HD
- copy files to floppy (400k, 800k, or 1.4MB)

Note: I use 8.6 for this and MFS 400k disks can be created using a disk image only. I am not sure about HFS 400k disks.

[Mac128]

The only problem with Ethernet is that you have to physically run wires between the Macs. I suppose this is easy enough with a compact, just carry it into the room you want to transfer files and plug it into the network. I used to run mine through a commercial grade phone system installed in my last house, but that's pretty rare.

Personally, I prefer the Zip drive both for the volume and size of files it can handle, as well as its compatibility back to the stock Mac Plus. (128Ke if fitted with a SCSI port), as well as an OS X Mac (with HFS writing software of course since Leopard dropped support for HFS).

With my 128K I just transfer files directly into and out of OS X using Terminal, but that's a pretty slow method for System 6 & 7 file sizes. For more on this, check out http://mac128.com

But the most versatile method I've found is the Zip drive. it's portable, compatible, Minimal setup and configuration, reliable, and fast.

[Arthegall]

I just picked up an Apple modem 300, and I have a copy of terminal Tell me more about how you make your compact talk to a modern Mac over the phone. What do I do on the modern Mac end?

[reallyrandy]

I'm bidding on a usb self powered zip drive and a scsi zip drive on ebay. This seems to be the best route for me as these Macs will not be hooked up most of the time, they'll be in glass display cases.

I can also back each one up in it's entirety on one zip disk each.

[bibilit]

Zip drive is fine really, you can even boot from a zip if required.

Only drawback, the setup is pretty bulky compared with the USB floppy drive (and you need two drives instead of one)

On the other side, zip disks are far better to move big files.

I have a zip also, but like floppies

[Mac128]

I just picked up an Apple modem 300, and I have a copy of terminal Tell me more about how you make your compact talk to a modern Mac over the phone. What do I do on the modern Mac end?

It doesn't actually use a modem of any kind, it uses a direct serial/usb cable null-modem.

Here's some discussions we've had on it ...

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4318

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11106

[sirwiggum]

I just added an old floppy drive to my desktop PC. Looks a bit strange, shiny black case with a faded beige floppy, but it has a wee door on the front so you don't notice most of the time

I use HFVExplorer and VMac to get files onto floppies.

Anything I want onto the Mac Plus, I have a few 800k disks, I use the classic as a go-between swapping the 1.44MB floppy and the 800k Plus floppy.

Long term, I am looking at a SCSI ZIP drive. This could be the HDD for the plus, an external drive for the classic, and I have a Parallel (really a SCSI without the SCSI chip...) ZIP drive that I can connect up to the PC to download anything I fancy.

You could ethernet them, but I tend to think of compact macs more as standalone machines, good for games, recipes DB and word processing (the keyboards on both are a joy to type on!)

[Mark2000]

I see many of you are using Windows. I was wondering about what to do if you have a new Mac. I'm assuming a CD or Zip drive would have to be HFS compatible in order for the old Mac to see it. I'm using OS X Lion right now and it's chucked out HFS support. I tried to use OSXFuse with HFS support but if I copy too much stuff to a (USB) Floppy I get a kernal panic. I'm not considering an Asante Mini scsi to ethernet device to get FTP access on the internet working. Either that or I'll need to try the PC options in a virtual machine. Any other ideas?

I'm in disbelief that I can write floppies for my 286 on my new Mac with ease (FAT) but can't do the same for one of Apple's own products.