Pivot mono + Pivot color card?

[CelGen]

I have come across both a Radius Pivot 0194 monochrome monitor and the NuBus card for the Radius Color Pivot.
One thing I do not have is the video cable and I'm not sure if the card and monitor are compatible as the card is the usual DB15 mac monitor connector but the monitor uses a DB9 connector.
Has anyone tried this before and is there a pinout for the monitor if possible?

[Bunsen]

Vintage Radius Documents

[CelGen]

Already been there. The best I could really get out of the place was:

The current Color Pivot NuBus card, model #0406, will work with the Pivot display...

However the number 0406 is present nowhere on this card, nor is there anything similar to it. There is also no appropriate pinout.

[Bunsen]

Huh. I would have sworn they'd be more helpful. Sorry.

Have you tried searching for old Usenet posts through Google's "Groups" option?

[applefreak]

DE-9 connector

contact welovemacs or recycledgoods, or another seller of the Radius 632 0070 Pivot NuBus Interface
http://www.welovemacs.com/6320070r.html
http://www.recycledgoods.com/products/Radius-632-0070-Pivot-NuBus-Interface.html
and ask them what to do or not to do ...


some info about Summary of Video Standards

[CelGen]

Huh.
I don't see why I need to contact a recycler and see what my options are. Am I missing the point of your comment?

[papa_november]

It looks like you'll need to find someone with a working specimen of that display and the cable it came with, and ask him to beep it out for you. No idea if there's anyone here with the original B&W Pivot, but at least the card you have should be able to drive not only any Pivot display, but a normal monitor as well.

[oldappleguy]

I have both the b&w, and the color pivot cables. I don't see how just the pin-outs will help.
the b&w has a db9 on both ends. The color has a db15 on the card end with a ibm style hd db15
on the monitor end.

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Pinouts always help, the more variety the better in sorting out signal assignments for semi-proprietary interfaces.

If for no other reason, folks can build cables for the same configurations you have.

[CelGen]

Indeed pinouts do help and I am still searching for the one for my monitor and card.

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

@CelGen

Actually, your DA-15 <-> DE-9 missing cable and Pivot''s configuration could help out substantially in the 8 header pin <-> DA-15 <-> Integrated HD-15 Adapter cable pinout project for the, readily available, Radius Color Pivot II/IIsi Cards.

With the Pivot powered down:

Hook up a DE-9 Serial Cable to your Pivot and meter the pins. to the D-Sub shroud along with second and third, obvious ground points (in this scenario the ground lug on the three prong power plug comes to mind.) to let us know which are the ground lines.

Pivot the monitor to test if any of the "ground/signal" pins' status changes with the rotation.

With the Pivot powered up:

Repeat tests above with the exception of the cable ground lug.

If one of our electron-pushers can noodle out a test for the remaining lines that change with the Pivot's orientation when the monitor is powered up, things will be simplified quite a bit.

@oldappleguy, if you can do these same tests on your identical DE-9 <-> DE-9 cable/Pivot and especially the DA-9 <-> HD-15 cable/Pivot, we'll have an interesting table of results to work from, especially so as the 8 header pin <-> DA-15 Cable for the SE/30/IIsi in my possession will give further clues as to what's going on within the Card <-> Cable signal interface.

Have you got NuBus or PDS Cards to go with your Cables/Pivots?

I'll post more testing procedures as they come to mind, but if one of our boffins chime in to help, maybe what's left of my mind won't frazz . . .

[CelGen]

I would try and get to pin poking the monitor I have as soon as I can reach my crawlspace which is currently blocked by the currently removed contents for my PDP-11/84 rack.

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Start by posting high resolution pics of both sides of the connector end of the NuBus Card. Maybe one of the boffins will recognize RGB, V-SYNC & H-SYNC from the configurations of the digital glue. Xener Diodes leading to the DA-15 would be a dead giveaway for signal lines. The positioning of those three contact discrete components might also make sense to an electron pusher.

[zuiko21]

Now that you mentioned the Radius Color Pivot IIsi...

I got one of these, without the external connector. According to my probing with the 'scope, the 15-pin header on it matches Apple's DA-15 socket, as commonly numbered -- at least, grounds are where they should and so are the sync signals; and the R, G & B channels supply signal out of the sync periods. But no matter what sense code I hooked, it seems to send a horizontal sync of about 69 kHz -- compatible with both 21" and Portrait modes. Couldn't get my 'scope to hold on vertical sync, so I can't confirm if it's 75 Hz or whatever.

On the software side, the card shows up on Slot Info as slot 9 or A, depending on the JP1 setting. But not in the Monitors control panel Testing done on a IIsi via the built-in video.

BTW, a Dayna E/si30 ethernet card I have (also without connectors) hooked to the pass-thru PDS on the Radius, will prevent booting at all, no matter the jumper settings. The Dayna alone shows up fine as Slot 9.

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I was beginning to think that was the case, I was going to try 3, 4 & 5 BNC cables on my NuBus Pivot Cards, just to see.

As far as the RCPII/IIsi goes, I started playing with it again with the continuity tester. If pin one is the square ground pin, it matches up with pin one on the Mac DA-15. Pins 2-7 on the RCPII/IIsi conveniently map to pins 2-7 on the DA-15 as well.

That's as far as I got the other day, but I also determined that pins 6, 13 and 14 are all tied to ground.

I'll get to the rest after Valentines Day!

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

No chance for updates yet, but . . .

. . . here are some pics of your theoretical cable . . . IIsiColorPivotII_PDS_Card_HackProject™

I didn't feel up to deciphering the pins that are tied together until you chimed in with some silly-scope data, my working hypothesis was sense line voodoo and I'm a bit rusty on the subject.

Anectdotal data on the Vertical Sync rate is above. Lines of research to be attempted: UNDERClocking a Video Card??????

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I took another look at the RCPII/IIsi Cable again tonight.

Results are in! IIsiColorPivotII_PDS_Card_HackProject™

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Have you tried a standard cable on your Pivot/NuBut Pivot Card combo yet?

I'll be posting a bunch of Radius pinout info soon in the other thread.

[zuiko21]

Who, me? The problem is that I don't have any cable between the card's pin header and an external connector... I'll try cutting a (long) female pin header and soldering the cables on the PCB-intended pins

I was writing this on the SE/30 because the OS X machine collapsed... but strangely says that my reply has 'too few characters'

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Who, me? The problem is that I don't have any cable between the card's pin header and an external connector...

No, that'd be CelGen. He's got the NuBus Card & Pivot Monitor to try with stock a stock Mac Video Cable . . . I'm guessing, based upon my confirmation that the Non-NuBus Cards appear to use a standard Mac DA-15 Video Connector Pinout . . . that discovery and confirmation was expedited (gave me a kick in the pants to get started on it again) by the SillyScope Data for the Video Lines and their ground shield complements posted by you for the RCPII/IIsi Card . . . for which I have a working cable . . . which leads me to ASSuME that CelGen needs but try a stock, straight thru Mac Video Cable.

There! PARSE THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll try cutting a (long) female pin header and soldering the cables on the PCB-intended pins

I'll reply to this in: IIsiColorPivotII_PDS_Card_HackProject™

[CelGen]

Got fired from work.
Well, now that my schedule has been freed up for hopefully not too long, I was able to pull the pivot out of storage to check on those pins.

2, 3, 7 and 9 are apparently ground pins. Pin 8 is about 77 ohms to ground.
Pin 3 loses resistance when the screen is rotated so it must be the line from the mercury switch. (Portrait = ON, Landscape = OFF)
Pins 1, 4, 5, and 6 report no connection to ground.

Not sure what you wanted me to poke at with the DMM while the monitor is powered.

CelGen needs but try a stock, straight thru Mac Video Cable.

I have some but they are being used for my KVM.

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Good luck with the new job hunt, comrade.

I wonder if it will work either way from a standard VidCard at startup?